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Multiple Settings within the same Genre?
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On a scale of 1 (the worst) to 5 (the best), how would you rate your enthusiasm if you heard about another SW Setting for a genre already covered?
5 - Great! Another toy for me! Bring it on!
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
5 - Great! Another toy for me! Bring it on!
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
5 - Great! Another toy for me! Bring it on!
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
5 - Great! Another toy for me! Bring it on!
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
4 - I'm always interested in new settings
8%
 8%  [ 12 ]
4 - I'm always interested in new settings
8%
 8%  [ 12 ]
4 - I'm always interested in new settings
8%
 8%  [ 12 ]
4 - I'm always interested in new settings
8%
 8%  [ 12 ]
3 - I'd have to see it before making a decision
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
3 - I'd have to see it before making a decision
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
3 - I'd have to see it before making a decision
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
3 - I'd have to see it before making a decision
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
2 - It'd have to have one hell of a twist to gain my interest
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
2 - It'd have to have one hell of a twist to gain my interest
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
2 - It'd have to have one hell of a twist to gain my interest
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
2 - It'd have to have one hell of a twist to gain my interest
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
1 - No thanks, one setting is plenty
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1 - No thanks, one setting is plenty
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1 - No thanks, one setting is plenty
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1 - No thanks, one setting is plenty
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 148

Author Message
Truckee Games
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Multiple Settings within the same Genre? Reply with quote

Heya Gang,

Over the last year, I've been writing Scairy Tales, and during that time, I've had instances of inspiration for other settings, but despite having filled out a few pages on the idea, I put it on the back-burner.

Now, as it happens, ideas are not as unique as we all like to believe, and many ideas I've had for SW have since come to fruition or have been announced as coming soon as either official products or from one of the quality licensesees.

Here's the question: Would you welcome another setting in the same genre as an existing setting for Savage Worlds? For example, let's say I have a pulp sci-fi idea in the vein Flash Gordon. Would you have an interest in another setting like that when Slipstream and Rocketmen are already on their way? Even if ultimately all three settings were unique and didn't cover the same ground?

I ask for my own personal reasons, so that I can gain some insight into which projects I should pursue in the future, but I'm also interested as a fan, because as the SW community grows, I can see more setting/genre overlaps like this coming, and I wonder where it will lead.

Thanks for your consideration.

EDIT: I added a Poll, because I saw that there was over 170+ views of this thread, but very few comments, so I thought I should survey the silent majority. Wink
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Last edited by Truckee Games on Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Banjo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Very Happy
Eventually you are going to run out of unique genres, although you can always tweak them around the edges, but there is a nearly unlimited numbers of settings .....
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Ben Rogers
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking about such broad genres as "fantasy", "pulp", "sci-fi", "horror", then most definitely!

If you're narrowing it down to "fairy tale horror" or "buck rogers pulp", then I would say that one or two really good ones is all you need. At that point, I'd rather see a modification of a setting than a whole new one.

"Okay, this brand of Buck Rogers Pulp has magic and birdmen, so here are the mods for these new guys and a new place for you to play."

It functions more as a setting within another, established piece of work.

There really isn't that much "new ground" to be broken anymore. Most of the art these days is finding the niche and exploiting it.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My feeling is that it's not the genre, but the hook. If a setting has a good hook, "duplication" isn't an issue.

Heck, take Evernight and 50 Fathoms. They're both fantasy genre, but the hooks are what make them different.

Now, take Rocketmen and Slipstream. In a way, both of them have the "hook" of being pulp sci-fi, an often ignored sub-genre of sci-fi, but really, the hook for Rocketmen (and the other WizKids RPGs for that matter) is their license and unique publishing situation.

So, I think I would be cool with another pulp sci-fi setting, but it couldn't be just a different setting of pulp sci-fi; it would have to be pulp sci-fi with a completely different hook. Which would be kind of tricky to pull off I think in that specific example.

Anyway, my two cents.
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Savage Oni
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Here's the question: Would you welcome another setting in the same genre as an existing setting for Savage Worlds? For example, let's say I have a pulp sci-fi idea in the vein Flash Gordon. Would you have an interest in another setting like that when Slipstream and Rocketmen are already on their way? Even if ultimately all three settings were unique and didn't cover the same ground?


Most definately!

For us consumers, it would give us a greater range of choices to pick from. For the writers/publishers, a healthy competition would drive you guys to make a better product which would also benefit us.

In the end it will be interesting to see variations in how the authors tweaked the SW game system to fit with their world in a particular setting.

I also think a lot of gamers don't stick with just one setting. For example, in my fantasy collection, I've got the Iron Kingdoms d20 and Forgotten Realms supplements. In other words, if your twist on a setting piques my interest, I'll probably end up getting it even though I may already have a setting within the same genre.
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Truckee Games
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben Rogers wrote:
If you're talking about such broad genres as "fantasy", "pulp", "sci-fi", "horror", then most definitely!

If you're narrowing it down to "fairy tale horror" or "buck rogers pulp", then I would say that one or two really good ones is all you need. At that point, I'd rather see a modification of a setting than a whole new one.


This is what I was getting at. 50 Fathoms and Evernight are both fantasy. So is Sundered Skies (when it comes out). All are equally distinct from each other, but all share fantasy as their well-spring. And I agree that for very specific (I'd say niche) settings, like Tour of Darkness, anything similar is pointless. The issue comes up when the target it more broad, but still similar: Someone says, "I want to create a fantasy game about flying ships". Is there room in the SW community for another flying ship fantasy setting?
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Marc Hameleers
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As i kow a little bit about Sudnered Skies, all i can say is this: If someone else wanted to do a flying ships fantasy setting, it better be the best setting ever to be able to compete with Skies.

I doubt there will be room for another once skies hits the streets!


marc
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Truckee Games
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
My feeling is that it's not the genre, but the hook. If a setting has a good hook, "duplication" isn't an issue.

So, I think I would be cool with another pulp sci-fi setting, but it couldn't be just a different setting of pulp sci-fi; it would have to be pulp sci-fi with a completely different hook. Which would be kind of tricky to pull off I think in that specific example.

Anyway, my two cents.


Good points, Clint. Let me ask you directly, being a SW author and all ( Wink )...do you think SW could use or need another four color Supers setting? Not one set in the past, or in the future, but in modern day. What would it take to be different enough from NE to be desirable by fans, and yet marketable enough to sell, but not kill sales of NE?

This is perhaps a similar issue: As a fan, I'm all for as many quality settings as can get turned out, but as someone who is also writing, I'm worried about market saturation and what may be either ultimately healthy or unhealthy for the SW community.
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lordthrog
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I'm not Clint, and I don't play Clint on TV (how cool would that be!) and he'll probably restate this better than I can, because he does that at lot (and I ain't complaining, we just tend to see things similarly) but I think there is room in SW for another 4 Color Supers setting. As Clint stated earlier, it's all about the "hook" and NE has a very unique "hook" for a Supers game. There are certain powers that were intentionally left out (I remember that being said) because they didn't fit the setting, but that Heroes might have. NE would be a good spring board for supers character creation, but can be tweaked for all different types of Supers games. Grim and Gritty vs Golden Age vs Silver Age. I think there is room.

Look at AD&D' 2nd edition, back in the TSR days. There was Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Al-Qadim, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Dragon Lance, and probably some others that I'm forgetting. These were all Fantasy worlds, but each had a unique "hook" that brought players to the table.

OK, I'm done rambling in this post, I thank you, if you made it this far, I would have stopped reading 2-3 sentences in. Laughing
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Ben Rogers
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hook is vital.

For instance, if someone came along and said, "I want to do a fantasy game that involves pirates!" The first question should be "What does it do better than 50 Fathoms (or "different", not necessarily "better").

I can think of three fantasy games that I'm working on right now that would all make excellent settings, without covering any of the territory already done. But I still think they'd be a hard sell in general because the market is flush with fantasy games.

Yet, I still trudge along... Wink
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Truckee Games
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, all. I'd like to take this opportunity to announce my latest setting in which you play four color supers riding around in flying ships over the shattered earth while defending the remnants against alien witches who are trying to flood the remains while unlocking things were not meant to know in the jungles. It features the ability to rip alien powers and add them to your own character. It features the fairy tales riding shotgun in Soviet spaceships, through a blackhole to alien homeworlds! It features Zombie Cowboys for some reason!

It's called.... SAVAGED WORLDS: THE ALL CAPITAL LETTERS RPG!



Sorry....had to get that out of my system. Very Happy

(No RPGs were harmed in the making of this farce)
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skylion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, take a good look at Andy Hopp's game Low Life (careful, it excretes!). Post-Apocalypse? Yes, have some, heck have all of them. Fantasy? Yes, creatively disturbed fantasy at that. Satire? You bet!if you would pass up the oppourtunity to play sentient effluviance then pick an ocular cavity to be poked in, cause you need it.
All of these genres and styles of gaming have been issued before, but it's that effluvant hook that draws you in. Yes, I am shilling..it's a good game.

Part of what has made the Savage Worlds games so exciting to explore is that the ideas have been turned nintey degrees, forming a fresh perspective. In it's own rights, Necessary Evil is a good SW rule set for super powered characters. When I first heard about it I liked the idea, but was still not completely sold on the campaign. I thought, when I get it, maybe my group can play a few of the surviving hero's in games I write myself. But after reading the Savage Tales, I was hooked to the campaign, and am eager to continue telling that story.
Now you have mentioned Pulp Sci-Fi. I love that genre, and you already have my attention. What do you have to say to keep my attention? What are the dynamics that will not only make me want to buy the book, but keep me awake nights thinking about the next game session.
What old Pulp concepts are there out in the Ether that could be properly used to tell a good yarn?
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Ashikaider
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still waiting to see what happened to Crime Does Not Pay the pulp supers setting that was apparently ready to go in some form before Clint was given the go ahead for NE.

But Clint's right, don't worry about genre, the hook is where you get your audience.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

~reading with intense interest~
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discuit
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You come up with a great hook, no matter the setting, or one cool/unique mechanic and i'll buy it!. Very Happy

Seriously though, i think there is still plenty of "space" left in the SW world as far as settings go, so go for it! Cool
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MadTinkerer
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent, think about it this way:

Isn't Marvel Earth basically a copy of DC Earth but with fewer cities when you get right down to it? Yet both universes/comic lines/companies are doing extremely well.

It's all in the execution.

I'm actually writing (okay, it's on the back burner at the moment, but I'll probably start on it again post-DL:R and submit at least part of it to Shark Bytes) a standard fantasy campaign. Very D&D-esque, with a lot of world elements specifically designed to make it more D&D-esque than most (e.g. this world has dungeons explicitly designed for adventurers, but there's a good in-world explanation for it) but there's also a secret twist that makes it completely unlike pretty much any other swords & sorcery RPG I've run across.

Well, technically the big twist has been done before and in very prominent fashion, but it's really a matter of perspective... And that's all I can say about it right now. Cool

(No, it's not an alien invasion. Sheesh!)

But anyway, like Evernight, it relies on the cliches and even plays them up even more than Evernight before the big reveal. Sometimes something that appears to be cliche is actually very different. Look at Superman and Majestic. Look at the Marvel U and DC U and then at Astro City. Look at Yu Yu Hakusho and Bleach (okay, yes I'm being a big Manga nerd, but it's a great example and they're both conveniently in print). Look at D&D and then the Ultima games. Look at Super Mario Sunshine and Ratchet & Clank. Look at Quake 4 and Half Life 2. Look at Boot Hill and Deadlands.

After all, Evernight II and Shaintar are basically the same thing, right? Wink
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Alan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon there is room, but only so much. With the best intentions in the world there is already a massive number of setting coming out for savage worlds (well, planned, and I'm sure they will get here and be great), and the closest I can get to shortlist of things I want own is probably more than I'll have the chance to play/run for years. Throw in the fact that I'll wouldn't turn down the opportunity to play in most any of them and it turns into one hell of a list. The short version, I just played/ran/bought something from genre X, although this new book looks ace it is also genre X, would love to give it a go but why don't I take a break and try one of these other really cool setting from a different genre.

Could be I got the wrong end of the stick here but I can see that being an issue. That said long ago I had an idea for for a victorian era campaign and have been colloecting reference material ever since so rippers/empire of bone/ leagues of adventure and probably others despite all being arguably of the same genre will be getting picked up.

But Yeah, problems aside if you can, do it. Add another flavour to a setting, I know I like to see new tricks for old toys.

Alan
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Marc Hameleers
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. Same for me. I already am running a victorian campaign. Rippers will become a part of that, and so will the others when they come out.

We also declined a playtest for Skies, because we just are finishing 50F, and wanted to do a different thing before returning to ships ( even if they float, and the rests is entirely different...And believe me, it's different and great ( skies ) )

The good thing about this is off course that the amount of great settings commming means there is something good to pick..but it also means that i cannot now play Skies..( the others wanted somethign different first not me.....i want it badly and now Smile )


Marc
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Maldroth
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent topic! I've been a long time fan of Deadlands since release and I admit I didn't pick up Savage Worlds until Gencon of 05 and after talking with Shane at the NCSoft booth. It was a condition but just chatting about his writting for CoV made me remember "wow I really had a lot of fun with Deadlands, Savage Worlds sounds like it will fill the void for a good easy and fun system"

I've always had various themes i've been writting in the background but it always came to a Victorian horror setting using some additions to the original Deadlands rules. After picking up SW and reading it in the car ride home I found that this setting I had worked on 5 years ago really was easier to do with SW. The setting has evolved overtime to incorporate another adventure genre that of pulp action and fantastical science. Played Space 1889 back in the day and it always appealed to me. Well since August this document i've been working on has come along rather nicely and had 5 good sessions in my test group.

I really have considered publishing it due to much of what I've read on the boards but it also brought up a dillema. TRES could be considered similar. Granted the twist is much different not not really the same product as people have pointed out with 50 Fathoms and Evernight.

Then I discovered League of Adventures is in the schedule for Legion Publishing which sounds more like that i've been creating. Couldn't find much info on it but sounds like my setting has more of the fantastical arcane and colonization than LoA does.

So this thread is great to get an idea of not only the fans but what the other writers feel about the subject. It really is about the hook that something that makes you want to pick it up and try it out, and if its fun then you can't wait for the next session.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main concern with this line of thought is the possible confusion of "a hook" with simply "different."

The D&D worlds were mentioned at one point. Let's look at some of them, Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance... They are all different, but at their core, they are all just generic fantasy settings. They all have the same hook.

On the other hand, Shaintar and Evernight have completely different hooks. Evernight's hook is to take classic fantasy and twist it... hard.

But Shaintar is doing something I'm seeing among the licensees, where their hook is actually to provide the traditional setting. Shaintar is a classic high fantasy setting and that alone is its hook.

The problem is the "going traditional" hook only works once, no matter how different the settings are.

So, I could see someone doing a traditional 4-color supers setting because NE has a completely different hook other than being "traditional." But I wouldn't want to see two settings like that.
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