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[Talisman Studios] Shaintar: Immortal Legends GM Support
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How Are You Most Likely To Use the Shaintar Player's Guide?
As support for my existing fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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As support for my existing fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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As support for my existing fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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As support for my existing fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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To start up my own fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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To start up my own fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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To start up my own fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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To start up my own fantasy campaign, set in my own world.
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To support my own fantasy campaign, set in an established/published setting (such as Forgotten Realms).
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To support my own fantasy campaign, set in an established/published setting (such as Forgotten Realms).
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To support my own fantasy campaign, set in an established/published setting (such as Forgotten Realms).
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To support my own fantasy campaign, set in an established/published setting (such as Forgotten Realms).
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To start up a campaign set in the Shaintar: Immortal Legends world, of course!
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To start up a campaign set in the Shaintar: Immortal Legends world, of course!
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To start up a campaign set in the Shaintar: Immortal Legends world, of course!
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To start up a campaign set in the Shaintar: Immortal Legends world, of course!
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To support my existing Shaintar campaign.
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To support my existing Shaintar campaign.
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To support my existing Shaintar campaign.
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To support my existing Shaintar campaign.
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To review for ideas on how to develop my own setting rules and material.
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To review for ideas on how to develop my own setting rules and material.
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To review for ideas on how to develop my own setting rules and material.
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To review for ideas on how to develop my own setting rules and material.
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To line my hamster's cage, so that he has something really amazingly bad to poop on.
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To line my hamster's cage, so that he has something really amazingly bad to poop on.
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To line my hamster's cage, so that he has something really amazingly bad to poop on.
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To line my hamster's cage, so that he has something really amazingly bad to poop on.
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Total Votes : 316

Author Message
Shadowdragon
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we have bad guy stats for goblins, orcs, and ogres. How about bad guy stats for other PC races that can be used as villains, like Dregordians, Brinchie, etc. They could always be used as brigands, thieves, mercenaries working for an evil warlord etc. Or are they better left for a full beastiary (either in the setting book or a seperate beastiary book)?
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to get some Assorted Bad Guys of different racial makeups posted soon.

Whenever I need "evil wandering beasties," I do tend to lean on the Childer. they are the "orcs, etc." of Shaintar - inherently evil and chaotic. Ratzin are the "horde" monsters. Minotaurs are the "big bad bruisers." Gargoyles are the "flying big bad bruisers" (mainly useful for messing up an aevakar's day). Thratchen (the ultra-fast, weapon-mastering, teleporting goat-men) are the "we should seriously consider running away now" bad guys.

Childer work well, continuity-wise, because so many of them have been brought over from Norcan Darr for wars and nefarious acolyte schemes.

Another source, as Boulder mentioned, are the various Undead and Corrupted - zombies, skeletons, ghouls on the low end; boggans (corrupted dwarves) and trolls (corrupted goblinesh) higher up; and vampires, werewolves, specters, and worse at the highest levels.

Darkness also has lots of shayakar (corrupted, pale-and-gothy elves) that can be unpleasant to deal with.

Like I said, I will try to post some more soon.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Evil Beagle Games
Shaintar: Legends Arise

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Shadowdragon
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Joined: 12 Dec 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stats for all the bad guys you mentioned would be very usefull Smile

How about starting a new thread to use as a Shaintar beastiary?
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Erskin
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Joined: 15 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowdragon wrote:
Stats for all the bad guys you mentioned would be very usefull Smile

How about starting a new thread to use as a Shaintar beastiary?


Perhaps not a new thread just yet.

That said, I think we might be able to whip a little something up to help you folks out. Wink
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Erskin L. Cherry
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Talisman Studios (www.talismanstudios.com)
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Shadowdragon
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Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 407
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much are magic items created with the Enchant and Improved Enchant Edges worth? Are the prices calculated the same way as potions (250 per PP +250), or are they different?
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Erskin
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Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowdragon wrote:
How much are magic items created with the Enchant and Improved Enchant Edges worth? Are the prices calculated the same way as potions (250 per PP +250), or are they different?


They are ridiculously expensive. Wink

No, seriously.

Enchant, Improved Enchant, and Arcane Artificer all cost the creator a whole "Feat" worth of effort every time they want to make a single item.

So, in general, such items simply are considered priceless and simply aren't sold for money.

I know that's kind of a cop-out, however, so I'll say a little more.

Off the cuff, if you were a random joe looking to find and buy (or perhaps pay to have custom made) some sort of enchanted item, I'd say at least:

10,000 copper pieces for every +1 bonus in an Artificed item
20,000 copper pieces for every 1 PP in an Enchanted item and
40,000 copper pieces for every 1 PP in an Improved Enchanted item

Naturally, no one would ever do this (especially Improved Enchant) for some random joe they had never met before. (Legendary characters didn't make Legendary by giving out powerful magic items to unknown people. Whether they are noble or vile, it just isn't safe/smart practice.)

Also, anyone desperate enough to try and sell an item they had made with these feats would probably get only half that price or less. Simply because most would be buyers don't have that kind of money and most wouldn't trust someone trying to sell such items. (No one would sell that, it's TOO valuable! sort of mentality.)

As always with economic issues, do what works best for your group. If you've got someone trying to twink the system, deal with them as a person, not by trying to adjust/invent more rules to fix it.

Hope that helps and gives you some perspective!
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Shadowdragon
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Joined: 12 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does that mean is there is no market on Shaintar for buying and selling magic items? One of the adventures I'm writing has the PCs visiting a city of thieves, pirates, and other evil doers. I wanted to include a few minor magic items in one or two shops that the PCs could buy, but now I'm thinking I may scrap that idea. I didn't know magic items in Shaintar were so expensive.

What happens when PCs kill an enemy who has magic items no one in the group can use, or want to use? Can they really sell the items for 10s of thousands of copper? Or are magic items so difficult to sell that if the PCs find items they can't/don't want to use they might as well just leave them behind?
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowdragon wrote:
So does that mean is there is no market on Shaintar for buying and selling magic items?


That is generally correct - there are no "magic item shops" in Shaintar. The closest you are going to get are the alchemist shops in the larger towns and cities. Basically, there's your "minor magic" for sale.

Imagine finding "Sting" or "Glamdring" for sale in a shop somewhere. That's what I am trying to avoid. Granted, a simple +1 doesn't seem like much, but (a) in SW rules, a +1 is huge and (b) in classic heroic fantasy, items imbued with magic are rare, special, and not common commerce product.

They are commissioned, or else created as a matter of someone's desire and vision, for a purpose.

Quote:
One of the adventures I'm writing has the PCs visiting a city of thieves, pirates, and other evil doers.


I've got the perfect place for you - Camden. It is more commonly referred to as "Snake's Den." It's a free city along the southwest coast, right on the western edge of the border of the Freelands. "Wretched hive of scum and villainy," and all that, with various merchant and criminal "houses" running their sections of the city while the highly corrupt Mayor takes his cut of everyone's action. The Malakar Dominion has strong ties there.

Quote:
I wanted to include a few minor magic items in one or two shops that the PCs could buy, but now I'm thinking I may scrap that idea. I didn't know magic items in Shaintar were so expensive.


See above for my reasons why. Shaintar is meant to fulfill many kinds of stories, but I never "cottoned to" the concept of cheap magic items for sale in specialty shops. I am not saying there aren't settings where that's appropriate, but Shaintar is not meant to be one of those settings.

However, I hasten to remind you that potions, salves, and other alchemical concoctions fulfill that niche fairly well.

Quote:
What happens when PCs kill an enemy who has magic items no one in the group can use, or want to use? Can they really sell the items for 10s of thousands of copper? Or are magic items so difficult to sell that if the PCs find items they can't/don't want to use they might as well just leave them behind?


Well, first off, it should be pretty rare that the heroes come across magic-item toting bad guys, at least at the lower ranks.

Secondly, when they do start coming across them, most of those items are probably going to be made with either Black Iron (corrupted, very tied to Darkness) or Bloodsteel (crafted with blood from sacrificial victims and tempered with hellfire). As such, these items are inherently evil. My heroes tend to take them along and turn them over to powerful priests, druids, or sorcerers for disenchantment and destruction (or do it themselves when they are powerful enough; opposed rolls work well for this, and I always assume the crafter was pretty powerful).

Third, it's rare - very rare - that a diverse party would ever come across a non-evil item that no one could make use of. If they did want to sell something, they'd need to find a buyer in a large city who had the resources to test the item. There'd be lots of negotiation over price, with offers of trade instead.

Having said all that, it is possible to make a small fortune if someone is bound and determined to sell a magic item to do it. As the GM, however, you have it well in your power to control who gets what, when.

Special Super Secret Note for those dedicated enough to figure out how to read this. There are mentions of the Builders and Arcmancy here and there. When those concepts come into play in the extended story of Shaintar, things will change fairly dramatically. There is a purpose to all things in Corelisia, as they say...
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Evil Beagle Games
Shaintar: Legends Arise

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Erskin
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Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowdragon wrote:
So does that mean is there is no market on Shaintar for buying and selling magic items? One of the adventures I'm writing has the PCs visiting a city of thieves, pirates, and other evil doers. I wanted to include a few minor magic items in one or two shops that the PCs could buy, but now I'm thinking I may scrap that idea. I didn't know magic items in Shaintar were so expensive.


Magic items, yes. Magical substances, not quite as much. Potions salves, and what not are perfect for the shops you speak of. Still relatively expensive and delightfully unknown/variable in quality. Remember, there's more to potions than just stuff to drink. Rub on salves or topical applications are also just as common.

Also, small focus crystals/crysarium, bits of everwood, or even a scrap or two of white silver and the like could be appropriate. Again, as many of these could be fakes. (Of course, a small chunk of raw blood steel might be in there too, but remember that all of these items have a "moral tint". Bloodsteel is BAD stuff.) More benign/generic but useful substances for opotions are, of course, fair game as well. Make some up! Wink

Shadowdragon wrote:
What happens when PCs kill an enemy who has magic items no one in the group can use, or want to use? Can they really sell the items for 10s of thousands of copper? Or are magic items so difficult to sell that if the PCs find items they can't/don't want to use they might as well just leave them behind?


They aren't so difficult to sell that it's better to leave them behind. (Because the payoff is pretty big.) It's just that, most often, the selling isn't the first issue on the list. It's rare that SOMEBODY in the party won't be able to us it. If they can't odds are there is an institution (the Gray Rangers, the Church of Light) the characters can "turn it over to" who will in turn "appropriately reqward/recognize" them, if not always in money.

Otherwise, it's more often a "how do we destroy this evil, evil thing". (Which is also likely to get you in good favor with organizations.)


You do, indirectly, bring up a good point, however. Shaintar is a place of moral and intent. More than HALF of all sources of magic in Shaintar have an innate moral bias to them. All sources of magic take real, personal effort to produce anything. This does tend to make "small" magical items just not feasible the way they can be in other systems.

Almost every magical item is special in some way, significant, if you will. They were are really made by SOMEBODY. And that history matters. (I think it's the "epic" in "epic high fantasy" shining through there.)

Okay, I need to stop rambling before I get any more philisophical. Wink

Back to the practical side, if you can tell me more about your idea for what function the small magic items you want for sale are meant to serve, (local color, make the players feel like they can buy something cool, give the players an edge they'll need later, trick the players into buying a bad/annoying thing, etc.) and I'll be happy to give you an idea of how I'd personalyl express that in Shaintar.

Also, there is a more "magical trinket" SORT of thing that comes into play MUCH later on in the huge overarching story/plot that Sean has for Shaintar, but I'll probably get tackled for even mentioning THAT much, heaven help me if I say the word "Arcfire" or something.

(And, just so you know, I am and SKINNY, SKINNY man and Sean is not, so when I say there's a risk of me getting sacked like I was on a football field, it's pretty serious stuff. Wink )

Hope this helps!
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Shadowdragon
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know all childer are beastmen but are all beastmen childer? Say I wanted to make up stats for gnolls (humanoid hyenas), or rhinomen, or snake people, or similar beastial humanoids. Would they all be childer?

Also, are gargoyles the gothic ston-skinned creatures, or are they more like harpies, who are half human and half vulture?
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Erskin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erskin wrote:
Shadowdragon wrote:
Stats for all the bad guys you mentioned would be very usefull Smile

How about starting a new thread to use as a Shaintar beastiary?


Perhaps not a new thread just yet.

That said, I think we might be able to whip a little something up to help you folks out. Wink


We'll that something I was talking about is ready. If you'd like a playtest copy of the preliminary besitary, drop me a PM or email me at erskin@eldritch.org and we'll have it sent right to you!
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadowdragon wrote:
I know all childer are beastmen but are all beastmen childer? Say I wanted to make up stats for gnolls (humanoid hyenas), or rhinomen, or snake people, or similar beastial humanoids. Would they all be childer?


Interesting and cool question. Actually, I've been using my gnoll figures for werewolves, but now you've got me thinking...

Anyway, your general assumption is correct. Even the brinchie have Childer connections in their history. I would probably put such things as "rhinomen" in a completely different part of Norcan Darr (the land the Childer come from), and not have them regularly interact with the ones typically encountered. If your heroes were to ever travel to that land and wander far from the usual "entry points," perhaps those beasts would be encountered.

Alternately, an enterprising acolyte might find a way to summon such very different Childer. Interesting idea...

As for "snake men," I would tend to say no. The reptillian beings are a different matter altogether in Shaintar (and on the planet of Starfall). A mystery for another time (which is all I can say for now...).

Quote:
Also, are gargoyles the gothic ston-skinned creatures, or are they more like harpies, who are half human and half vulture?


They are of the classic stony, spikey variety, and are intentionally very different from all other Childer.

Again, another one of those mysteries to be revealed down the road...


Sorry, but one of the original tag lines for Shaintar was "The Land of Mystery," and there were good reasons for this. I do plan to create a place for GMs of Shaintar to come and read more about what is planned so that they are "in on thing," but that will have to wait until the setting book is at last complete.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Evil Beagle Games
Shaintar: Legends Arise

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Sean Patrick Fannon
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Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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Location: Huntsville, AL

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erskin wrote:
We'll that something I was talking about is ready.


Yeah, I am pretty durn pleased. It should give you quite a bit to "play with" for a while.

Please feel free to ping me with any questions you have about what's in it.
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Shaintar: Legends Arise

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kmelion
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am currently running my kids through a basic D+D (rules cyclopedia) mini campaign, but at some point I'd like to introduce them the savage worlds system. So, yeah, that's my vote, take care-Jim
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:35 am    Post subject: Shaintar Way of the Brave Reply with quote

If I wanted to quickly convert Shaintar weapons to Way of the Brave, would this be a good rule of thumb?

Use the minimum str to determine the die of damage.
Anything left over from the original damage (e.g. a weapon that has a min Str of d6, but does Str +3) gets added as a bonus (becomes Str+d6+1).
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Clint
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might not apply to Shaintar, but generally the basic system Strength minimum is one die type lower than the WotB Strength minimum.

So a d6 would be a d8, translating a Str+3 weapon into a straight d8 weapon. A Str+4 weapon with a d6 minimum would then be a d8+1.

But again, that's general not setting specific. As always, see what Sean (or Mark) says.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly hadn't taken Strength mins into mind when I first started using WotB for my own Shaintar games. I just used the straight translation in most cases.

I will have to give this some thought, but using the straight conversion for now will work.
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kmelion
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's the Shaintar stuff coming? Looking forward to it. Take care!
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Murgh Bpurn
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmelion wrote:
How's the Shaintar stuff coming? Looking forward to it. Take care!


Aye, any chance of an update Sean?

Smile
MB
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giddoen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Is there a form fillable character sheet in PDF format? Reply with quote

Just curious as I have not seen one yet? If anyone has a good one please feel free to send me a link of the file. #1icon_bow


giddoen@gmail.com
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