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| Mecha are... |
| Big Robots. |
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| Big Robots. |
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| Just Different Vehicles. |
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| Just Different Vehicles. |
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| Just Different Vehicles. |
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| Just Different Vehicles. |
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| Totally Freakin' COOL!!!!! |
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| Totally Freakin' COOL!!!!! |
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| Totally Freakin' COOL!!!!! |
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| Totally Freakin' COOL!!!!! |
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| Total Votes : 96 |
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: SC Mecha Rules: Mecha as "Big Robots" |
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OK, here's the thread that spawned this thread:
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5761
For less-focused discussion, please stick to the other thread. Once we've hammered out a suitable set of playtest rules for this concept we can then move on to the concepts of "mecha as pseudo-symbiotes", "mecha as sentient AI's", and mecha as hi-tech vehicles.
The idea behind this project is to meld these concepts into an integrated system for mecha creation in Savage Worlds -- essentially, the GM decides which section of the system to use when he determines how mecha are to be handled in his campaign. The whole system will be released for free for use by anyone wishing to include mecha in a fan-created or licensed product, thereby ensuring some sort of standard so as to keep things FFF.
I've heard rumors that GWG has some sort of mecha-related project in the works, so this may all come to naught, but it's a noble effort!
So.... have at it!
Last edited by jblittlefield on Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Boulder
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: |
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OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out.
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RooksGambit
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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:42 am Post subject: |
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First off, lets define what we would all consider a vehicular mecha.
The images that come to my mind are:
Mobile Suits in the various Gundam timelines
Aestivalis Units from Martian Successor Nadesico
The Heavy Assault suits from Blue Gender
MechAssault Mecha
VTs from Steel Battalion
Does this sound about right?
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
I'd use a more genric term -- Mecha Construction Points (MCP) instead of "units of energy".
Bland is good -- it's easier to work out the specifics at a later date once the basics are down solid.  |
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Rook wrote: | First off, lets define what we would all consider a vehicular mecha.
The images that come to my mind are:
Mobile Suits in the various Gundam timelines
Aestivalis Units from Martian Successor Nadesico
The Heavy Assault suits from Blue Gender
MechAssault Mecha
VTs from Steel Battalion
Does this sound about right? |
Yeah, also any of the mecha from BattleTech -- essentially any humanoid or "animaloid"  type vehicle. Vehicle being defined as a purely mechanical conveyance. In other words, the mecha and the pilot are separate entities. |
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RooksGambit
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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Okay, so...
Should the size of the base frame determine the amount of MCP available, or should you start with a base amount of MCP that goes toward building the frame as well as everything that'll go on it?
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone.
Thoughts? |
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charliebananas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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posted this on the other thread.
now if we build each chasis' basic stats, we will have a base line to work with, Boulder on the other thread is playing with power plants that generate hundreds of points that are then distributed among the various sub-system, this to me is pointless as we might as well dust off mech-warrior or mekton z, but the size of the mech should i think determine both mecha build points and maximum number of glitches (ie bonus build points) as well of its basic stats.
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RooksGambit
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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| jblittlefield wrote: | | Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone.
Thoughts? |
Sounds good so far.
Now, would MCP be used to add weapons on as well, or would it be better to have Weapon "Slots" With each weapon taking up a certain number slots.
Or a total weight in weapons that a frame can support?
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Boulder
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Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Rook wrote: | Okay, so...
Should the size of the base frame determine the amount of MCP available, or should you start with a base amount of MCP that goes toward building the frame as well as everything that'll go on it?
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Abosolutely. The smaller the frame/chassis the less amount of MCP you have to spend.
| jb wrote: | Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone |
Looks good but I would lose the percentages of the various units. That's just too much math to have to deal with. You lose FFF that way.
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charliebananas
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 882
Location: U.K
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jblittlefield wrote: | | Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone.
Thoughts? |
NE handles point based abilities with out needing to use large numbers, i think for it tobe FFF you need to scale it down, also what does it matter how many points you can put in the head and legs, as i said earlier if you go this way you might as well play mech warrior. 
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Rook wrote: | | jblittlefield wrote: | | Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone.
Thoughts? |
Sounds good so far.
Now, would MCP be used to add weapons on as well, or would it be better to have Weapon "Slots" With each weapon taking up a certain number slots.
Or a total weight in weapons that a frame can support? |
I'd say each "frame" gets a certain number of "weapon slots" (i.e., hardpoints) for free. Each weapon uses a certain number of hardpoints. Need more hardpoints? Spend the MCP for a "hardpoint upgrade" to get more.
Each frame should also have baseline stats that can then be modified through MCP use.
No need to mess with weight or anything -- everything, even upgrades and "downgrades" -- should all be based on MCP. |
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jblittlefield
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| charliebananas wrote: | | jblittlefield wrote: | | Boulder wrote: | OK here's my thought on the subject.
Building a Mech should be on a point distribution system.
You start off with a chassis that generates a certain amount of energy and then each system/limb/accessory subtracts from that amount. In other words, you cannot spend more points than the chassis generates.
Example:
The main chassis generates 1000 units of energy
Each arm takes up 100 points each (1000-200=800)
Each leg take up 200 each (800-400=400)
Back unit takes up 150 (400-150=250)
That leaves 250 points to buy weapons/ammo/secondary systems/etc.
Of course this is just a bland overview and can be fleshed out. |
Howzabout a sliding scale for MCP based on mecha size?
Size 0 (human-sized mecha) 1000 MCP
Size +5 (small mecha) 2500 MCP
Size +7 (medium mecha) 5000 MCP
Size +10 (large mecha) 7500 MCP
Size +12 (gargantuan mecha) 10000MCP
Head = 15% Total MCP
Arms = 10%
Legs = 20%
Add-ons vary
This allows you to disallow certain add-ons through MCP cost alone.
Thoughts? |
NE handles point based abilities with out needing to use large numbers, i think for it tobe FFF you need to scale it down, also what does it matter how many points you can put in the head and legs, as i said earlier if you go this way you might as well play mech warrior. |
BUT WE CAN'T USE NE -- AND NOT EVERYONE OWNS IT
Howzabout:
Each size of mech assumes a humanoid shape, baseline stats, and a set number of MCP to use for purchasing options. |
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charliebananas
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 882
Location: U.K
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry i'm not saying use NE i'm saying that it manages to do what HERO system does in hundreds of points, in just 10 to 20, no one who plays savage worlds wants to dick around with thousands of points. They want FFF!
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Boulder
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Posts: 769
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jb wrote: | | BUT WE CAN'T USE NE -- AND NOT EVERYONE OWNS IT |
BUT THEY SHOULD!!! 
| jb wrote: | Howzabout:
Each size of mech assumes a humanoid shape, baseline stats, and a set number of MCP to use for purchasing options. |
Actually that might be the best way to go. But I would hate to dumb it down that much. It doens't allow for much customization but it does stay more in line with FFF.
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charliebananas
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 882
Location: U.K
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Howzabout:
Each size of mech assumes a humanoid shape, baseline stats, and a set number of MCP to use for purchasing options. |
Yeh, within a little a lot of things will be cosmetic (trappings), it doesn't matter if it's a walker or tracked, as fast as it goes is as fast as it goes, if it has arms maybe does matter more as it can then use swords and stuff and would thus need an effective str stat.
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jblittlefield
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Posts: 7472
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| charliebananas wrote: | | Sorry i'm not saying use NE i'm saying that it manages to do what HERO system does in hundreds of points, in just 10 to 20, no one who plays savage worlds wants to dick around with thousands of points. They want FFF! |
Howzabout....
Assume standard humanoid shape and baseline stats. Use flat 5 MCP/Size point to modify. |
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charliebananas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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It would work for me, the price of sub systems could be reduced by taking glitches, there by giving more scope.
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Boulder
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Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jb wrote: | Howzabout....
Assume standard humanoid shape and baseline stats. Use flat 5 MCP/Size point to modify |
Actually I was thinking of using weapon weight as the MCP cost as far as weapons go. If we're to go that way, you'll need more than 5 MCP/size modifier since vehicular weapons are so heavy. That's the easiest way I can think of to deal with equipping weapons. Thought/suggestions/rude remarks?
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charliebananas
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Posts: 882
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Also maybe, certain sub-systems could have a base line based on the size of the mech, so if you attach a pair of arms say to a small mech its base it would have a lower effective str than ones fitted to a gargantuan mech, you could still buy up the str of the arm, but you wouldn't have to.
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