Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Ultimoose]

I want to offer a 'bullet time' effect for my players. Think (Max Payne, Neo, F.E.A.R etc) They're going to be starting a dark pulp noir sup horror campaign and I'd like to let one or more of them have that whole...

"and it was as if the world slowed to a crawl as I saw his finger tighten on the trigger. I had all the time in the world to shift out of the path of the bullet as fire belched from the end of the pistol. Continuing the motion I released the dagger I held and watched it flutter end over end as if in molasses to bury itself in the creature's eye. The orb exploding outwards in a spray of green and red signaled Time to catch up and I tucked into a roll to come up behind a desk as all hell broke loose in the warehouse."

...instances that are in so much action adventure fiction.

My first thought was some kind of power that had to either to be paid for by a Benny (*gasp* sacrilege! I know right? But I've spent several months running a 4E campaign for these players where certain things cost a healing surge to power up or use so we're used to spending resources for exceptional results). In this case the result should be more powerful as a Benny is a pretty valuable kind of resource.

The other option would be a trait check, either Agility or Smarts, with a failure equaling a level of Fatigue, a success getting some reasonable return on investment and a raise of course getting a better result.

The final result should allow for the occasional "Damn that was cool!" moments but should have hard limits that completely block it from being a "Okay Dave do the bullet time thing and kill them all while I get a soda."

The question is what benefits should it get them? Removal of MAP penalty for a turn (two with a raise). A bonus to all skill rolls? Avoiding one attack (two with a raise) or what?

Comments appreciated in advance.

[kreider204]

A bonus to called shots? Or removing the called shot penalty altogether? I think that, coupled with a reduction / removal of the MAP would be great - it encourages the players to try all sorts of fancy things.

Possibly also bonuses to Agility tricks.
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"It only takes an extra second to be courteous."
- Constable Benton Fraser

[Asvald]

That would somehow look like drawing a joker in Initiative (ability to interrupt, the +2 which negates simple MAP or lowers called shot penalty).

[kreider204]

[Karnaze]

You could tie it to a modified 'Danger Sense' edge and create an 'Improved Danger Sense' edge.

If they succeed in making the danger sense roll, they get a bonus to 'dodge' the attack. If they have the improved version of the edge, they also get a bonus to hit the attacker whose attack they just dodged (regardless of whether the dodged attack hit or missed).

They would need to be aware of the attack in order for the power to work.

[Noshrok Grimskull]

Just sayin'...

*whistle*
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"If you think I'm crazy, you should see the people I'm locked up with." - Steamdriven

"This is my timey-wimey detector. Goes 'ding' when there's stuff." - The Doctor (Doctor Who)

[BryanH]

[Ultimoose]

problem with the linked Bullet Time edges is they're 'always on' not to mention Legendary because of it. I'm wanting more a 'moment of clarity' where the character has the 'all the time in the world' to see, calculate, and react to something. They don't get to move faster or anything, they just have have a 'long instant' of time that they can use to gain some advantage(s). I'm just trying to figure out what those might be and what it ends up costing the character to expand that instant of time.

I want it to be useful enough to actually use but costly enough that it's a highlight of a combat and not something they do every round.

If that makes sense.

[BryanH]

Then how about "Spend a bennie and give a vivid description to avoid all multi action penalties for one turn or gain +4 on your next action"?

[Professor Havoc]

I'm new to SW so sorry if this sounds wildly off track:

I think I might offer a low-powered version of bullet time to everyone, with an Edge track offered that allowed them to enhance it. It is the conservative approach - start modest so you don't risk throwing off the whole game. Also (and I could be way off), its probably not every character is going to want to prioritize battle/bullet-time prowess.

The baseline could be something like, spend a Benny to interrupt initiative and take your turn now with a bonus to something as the others suggested above. If you're not happy with the Benny-spending approach you might offer a Spirit test to attempt to enter bullet-time. Failure could result in a lost turn (which is probably penalty enough) while critical failure leaves the character Shaken.

The first Edge lets you drop MAP once.

The second Edge lets you drop MAP twice and Withdrawing penalties.

Or something like that. The multi-action is probably too powerful and would gloat over other edges unless you kept the pay-a-Benny approach but I think you get what I mean.
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I was recently Savaged and need someone to talk to about it.

[dentris]

Give your players more bennies.

Everytime they use a benny, they enter bullet time, allowing them for greater accuracy (in the form of a reroll) or to completly dodge a bullet (aka completly soaking damage).

Simple and effective. You don't even have to change the rules.
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But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;
Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"
--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

[Takeda]

Bullet Time [Novice, Wild Card, GM's Discretion]

SPC has Awareness as a power, so in the same vein the person in Bullet Time gets a Deflection bonus equal to +2 (plus an additional +1 per raise on an accompanying Agility or Smarts check, Failure = Fatigue) and gets an extra action with no MAP which can be a repeated action. Actions while in Bullet Time are taken as if it were two rounds so an Aim manoeuvre on the first can get the Aim bonus on the second. One could wild attack on the first action and a normal on the second, etc. It is activated with a Bennie and lasts one round.

It's a first draft.
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Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

[Ultimoose]

Interesting Takeda, I'm not sure what SPC is but your idea is to make it a Power and not an Edge?

The extra action sounds cool but it's not quite what I'm wanting although it could definitely be an Improved version. I'm leaning toward the basic benefit being a bonus. Mathematically though the bonus on an action/die roll has to be +4. A +2 bonus isn't as good as just spending the Benny to roll again it varies from up to a 30% worse chance to hit. (I ran the numbers for the +2 bonus from Aim by doing a few hundred thousand rolls and it just never works out as a general rule except in edge cases unless you have an edge that lets you aim every turn). A +3 bonus is roughly a wash depending on the actual dice rolled versus which toughness sometimes it's worse, sometimes better with a swing of a few percent either way. It takes a +4 to make this better than spending a Benny on a re-roll for a single attack for instance.

Where it might be better is a doubled up bonus, i.e. +2 on Parry/Ranged TN until their next turn and a +2 on one attack?

So perhaps something like the below which fits kinda what I'm looking for but I'm not familiar enough with all the various edges in all the source books that this might step on other entries toes. One thing to remember is these would cost the player a Benny so the effect has to be worth getting a re-roll on a trait test. ANd it has to be worth spending an edge on.

But not worth so much that it becomes a no-brainer to take.



First draft -

Edge - Heightened State
Requirements: Novice, Agility d8+, Smarts d6+
Your hero has an uncanny ability to see the world in slow motion from time to time giving them plenty of time to line up a shot or twist just enough to the side to dodge a blow.
Spend a Benny to activate this ability and gain a +2 bonus to Parry and apply a -2 to Ranged Attack rolls made against you until the start of your next turn. You must be aware of the attacks to gain the defense bonuses. In addition you will gain a +4 to one trait roll on your turn after activating this power.

Edge - Improved Heightened State
Requirements: Seasoned, Heightened State
You have honed your ability to react to the hostile world around you to a superhuman level. Increase the +4 bonus gained to two trait rolls on your turn.

[Takeda]

I suppose. I was suggesting it as a Weird Edge.

They could fight defensively on the first of their "perspectively-speaking" two rounds for the bonus to Parry and then attack on the second.

It's up to you of course but +4 is a massive bonus in Savage Worlds!
_________________
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

[Takeda]

For the record a +2 is statistically a better option than just re-rolling.

If you have a d6 your average (with Acing) will be 3.83 (if memory serves), so very likely to get a 4 with +2 you get a 6. This is a success on most challenges. If you couple the Wild-Die in your odds are on a d6 almost garranteed to get a 4. I suppose the Bennie gives you both dice a chance to open up but that's not always so.

Case in point: last Tuesday I rolled a 3 and a 2 with a Smarts d6 and Wild Die d6 and after a Bennie I had a 1 and a 2. With a +2 I would have passed the first roll as I only needed a 4.

Admittedly the bonus is better when the dice you're rolling are smaller but a +2 is nothing to sneeze at.

Are you expecting the Bullet Time user to be successful unless tragically unlucky? If so the +4 may be appropriate, if you just want them to have a much better chance to succeed than the +2 accomplishes that goal.

In my example if the person with Bullet Time had Marksman the subjective (or perspective time) would be two rounds and unless they move on their action they would get a +2 to both shots.

The Bonus to defense already noted previously should apply to both Parry and Ranged (I.E. Deflection Bonus) per the Awareness power which this edge emulates.

So Billy the Kid has activated Bullet Time and already has a revolver in each hand. He rolls an 8 on his Agility check and gets +3 Deflection/Parry bonus for the round. He has Marksman (and lots of other Edges) and shoots both pistols at the target getting a +2 to both as he has two-fisted and ambidextrous, he gets a second volley with both pistols on the second action so in one round gets 4 shots off and his ability to avoid harm (parry/deflection was +3 compared to usual).

Having Billy the Kid get 4 shots in one round with +2 to every shot seems pretty nasty to me!

Breaking that into two Edges might work?!
_________________
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

[Ultimoose]

I'm going to have to out on a limb and disagree that +2 is better than a re-roll.

I wrote a monte carlo style simulation that compared the differences between alternating using Aim one round and attacking the next versus taking a normal shot every round in various combinations from d4 to d10 and Toughness 4 to 10. I ran each combination 500,000 times. You can see the actual math somewhere down this thread - http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28061&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 In very few of the combinations dice rolled versus toughness does aimed shot break even and in some combinations it's up around 25% worse.

I will grant that I could have gotten something wrong but it was pretty simple code. Roll a dx and compare it to 4. Then roll damage appropriately either 2d6 (assuming a 9mm pistol) or 2d6+1d6 (assuming a raise on the attack roll) then count the effect of the attack on an Extra i.e. either miss or not enough damage, shaken or incapacitated.

If we had access to one of the extreme math geeks that say haunt the DnD forums we could probably get a forumlae to prove it one way or the other but not being a math geek I had to brute force it with a few million rolls.

Aim is good to conserve ammunition and helps avoid critical failure results so it has it's place. And if you have the time it's a great opener.

Called Shot if you browse the rest of the thread didn't fare well either. That -4 for +4 is pretty risky and doesn't return well in the majority of combinations. It does work well to bypass armour though or for melee against a low parry but high toughness character. I ran the simulation assuming guns.

Tricks and will tests have the same issues, personally they're a bad idea but are great for a group.

[Takeda]

The Marksman Edge gives you the benefit of Aim without costing a full round. I agree that a whole round for a +2 isn't great for a 1-on-1 challenge.

Look at wild attack for the head though. Net -2 to hit and potentially +6 to damage!
_________________
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

[Takeda]

Just to be clear, you only roll damage if you've already determined you hit.

You can't roll to hit, roll damage and then after not liking your damage roll, roll the entire thing again via a Bennie. If you want to re-roll damage you need the No Mercy edge.

So rolling damage as a part of your comparison was unnecessary.

I have seen the mathematical breakdown somewhere. I'll post it when I can.
_________________
Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

[skylion]

dentris has the right attitude. SW is cinematic by default. It doesn't need extra mayonnaise.
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[77IM]

I'd allow the players to spend a benny to take an extra action, either during their turn or out-of-turn (but not two extra turns at once). M&M used to call this "heroic surge." It seems like it fits the idea of Bullet Time, and can be used defensively (spend a benny to take an action and dive for cover) or offensively (spend a benny to catapult over a table and shoot two guys at once), and seems about as powerful as other uses of bennies.

-- 77IM
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