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Templar Tactics
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The Templar in my game...
...is usually in normal clothes/disguise and only puts on his/her tabard in battle.
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 7%  [ 11 ]
...is usually in normal clothes/disguise and only puts on his/her tabard in battle.
7%
 7%  [ 11 ]
...is usually in normal clothes/disguise and only puts on his/her tabard in battle.
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 7%  [ 11 ]
...is usually in normal clothes/disguise and only puts on his/her tabard in battle.
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 7%  [ 11 ]
...wears their tabard most of the time but puts on a disguise before going in town.
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 6%  [ 10 ]
...wears their tabard most of the time but puts on a disguise before going in town.
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...wears their tabard most of the time but puts on a disguise before going in town.
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...wears their tabard most of the time but puts on a disguise before going in town.
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...wears their tabard all the time except maybe when doing something stealthly.
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 4%  [ 6 ]
...wears their tabard all the time except maybe when doing something stealthly.
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...wears their tabard all the time except maybe when doing something stealthly.
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 4%  [ 6 ]
...wears their tabard all the time except maybe when doing something stealthly.
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 4%  [ 6 ]
...never wears their tabard except for "official" Templar business.
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 3%  [ 5 ]
...never wears their tabard except for "official" Templar business.
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 3%  [ 5 ]
...never wears their tabard except for "official" Templar business.
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 3%  [ 5 ]
...never wears their tabard except for "official" Templar business.
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...is really unique and <fill in the blank>.
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...is really unique and <fill in the blank>.
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...is really unique and <fill in the blank>.
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...is really unique and <fill in the blank>.
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Total Votes : 148

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Psykoguy
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 1554
Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the second the group proves themselves unworthy, i'll ditch em. Combine are always unworthy. There's a difference between helping the group (not participating in combat unless it's self defence) and aiding those who aren't worthy. So far, my group's proven themselves worthy.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psykoguy wrote:
Actually, the second the group proves themselves unworthy, i'll ditch em. Combine are always unworthy. There's a difference between helping the group (not participating in combat unless it's self defence) and aiding those who aren't worthy. So far, my group's proven themselves worthy.


Then where is the "loophole?"

If they prove their worth by aiding the "worthy," then no loophole is needed.

But if they aid the "unworthy," then no, they are not worthy to be aided by a Templar according to the code. If that were true, then the entire story of Jenny Hise would be pointless.

Sure, she was a good person, but she "threw away" her life to help the unworthy. According to the Templar code, leaving her to die once she made her decision was the correct thing to do.

Plus, I really don't see where the reasons for fighting have anything to do with it. It's not like the code is defined by combat.

So, if you're thinking that's the "loophole," your character may end up blessed by Saint Jenny, but he sure ain't following the code.
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Psykoguy
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Joined: 14 May 2003
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Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's basically the loophole that allows me to participate in helping unworthy towns. Hey, i don't want the test of blood on my ass.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psykoguy wrote:
It's basically the loophole that allows me to participate in helping unworthy towns. Hey, i don't want the test of blood on my ass.


Then I stand by my original statement; it is not a true viable loophole, and I would have Simon or Jo rip that Tempar a new one... eventually.

Course that doesn't mean your Templar might not think it's a viable loophole (though I think the parable of Jenny Hise, among other sources, makes it pretty clear).

And who knows, your Marshal may run it differently, but as a player, I certainly wouldn't think I had found a way around it. Plus, ultimately, there are no loopholes in an effective dictatorship, even if it is "benevolent."

This does kind of go back to the topic at hand. One Templar character only put on his tabard to help worthy towns and people. If a place or group would have been deemed unworthy "officially" by the Templars but he still chose to help them, he simply didn't wear his tabard while doing it. He knew he was breaking the rules... he just didn't care. Wink
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Last edited by Clint on Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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DannyboyO1
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Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 1425
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psykoguy wrote:
Hey, i don't want the test of blood on my ass.



I think the phrase is "blood on my hands". Or maybe you need to see a proctologist. Twisted Evil
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Son of a Gun
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Trinity, NM

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The templar in my group only wears the tabard when he wants people to know hes a templar, like it should be. When he wants to inspire and give hope, to scare the scum of the earth, and generally look like a paladin, he wears the tabard and uses his sword. Otherwise he acts like any other waster. His tests of worth arent as complicated as "put on this makeup and act like a mutie with an IQ of 60". Hes more of the hunt down and kill any fearmongers kind of templar. Its what we call "active do-gooding". He dont waste no time testing worth or seeing who's worth killing. He figures fearmongers are never a good thing, so he makes it his business to give them the business.

To be frank, the whole philosophy of the Templars is kinda screwy. It seems it contradicts itself in some places, or is sort of self perpetuating. Like the whole "hey i got super powers, that must mean Im doin the right thing". Doomies got super-powers, and most of them sure as hell aint doing anything good. And one final note... when Jenny Hise was banging on the gates, askin' for help, screamin' that the black hats were coming... what the hell did Simon do to help her? He was just one of the unworthy. Have some villain play mind games with your templar; its fun!
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Psykoguy
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Joined: 14 May 2003
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Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it may SEEM like their tactics are a little wonky, really when you get down to it, all their philosophy is is as stated:

Those who help others when they can, and are willing to stand up for themselves are worthy. If a settlement is strapped for resources and turn down alot of people asking for help, not out of any bad reason, but out of the sheer fact that they only have so much supplies to go around, they're just as worthy as a town that gives out help to those who ask (at least in my opinion, hell, you could say that Boise is the town in the first example).
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HeWhoIsPain
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Joined: 13 Apr 2005
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally played my Templar!! Wooohooo!!!

What did I do? I played it cool, dressed as your average waster, even in a town that I already knew to be worthy (my Marshall flat out told me. ::shrug:: He's new, so I'm fine with it). I have infantry battle-armor w/helmet, but I didn't even put that on until a Green Doomsayer reared his ugly head. I keep my sword and my tabard in a big long gym bag. Even when fighting broke out, I didn't put on the tabard.

Later, we find the Doomie's small army of around 100 Trogs. My partner and I head back to town. He's trusted in this community, so they start to listen, then I start giving orders like the Templar that I am, but still no tabard.

It's not until me, my friend the Doomsayer (Purple, of course) and two town guards go out to kill all 100 Trogs five miles away from anyone who could help us that I finally put it on. Why? To inspire those two men to do their best. To give them hope and courage. To give them stories to tell to keep hope alive.

...and because I felt really cool when they started murmering in awe at the sight of it. Very Happy
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Bard of DorAr
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Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do have to say, that's a bad loop-hole.

There's one SLIGHTLY more Valid Loop Hole I've used and then a way around the Test of worth Entirely for 3 extra points at character creation.

Loop Hole. I had a templar who traveled with people he knew, and he overlooked that they had a big mouth (He was Clueless). So folks invariably knew I was a Templar without me ever giving it away and so lots of places always came off as Worthy.

Non-Loop Hole method. You do realize it states that Simon looks the other way on the test of worth for folks with Jenny Hise as a martyr right? If it's so important to play a Templar that doesn't do test of worth, but you want to be a white robe, not a black. Spend the 3 Points on the LawDog Martyr. Problem solved.
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JimmyKippins
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm..

I've played a normal tabard-ish templar before, but the second time around I sorta changed it. He didn't bother with the whole "tabard" thing, in fact, my second templar hated the tabard because he felt in battle it was a giant red flag that screamed "here, shoot me!" so he wore a Templar "patch" kinda like a lawddog.
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Torque
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a templar in a game one who wore a white trench coat with a red cross on it instead of a Tabard.
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Onymous
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I've joined my party the templar has had a bad case of the Wasting which kept him out of commission but he got better and usually goes the Jenny Hise route of helping before he necessarily knows what he's getting himself into. Thing is he seems to forget to reveal himself as a Templar most of the time so he's just a guy in a concealing cloak who pulls out two swords (his own and Evanor) and going straight into Florentine.

Not very subtle but he gets the job done. It's the reason my kid decided he wanted to become his squire. Though his saving Teller by neatly dissecting some sort of intelligent undead's head before it could stab the hero of the Wasted West with a syringe full of black goo really did it for him too. I'm wondering how my character is going to handle it himself if he can survive the years training. It'll probably largely depend on what he decides to do. His player has been talking about getting a bit darker since his character feels guilty about our Junker (who he invited into the group against our tale teller's wishes) getting on Eunock Spicer's bad side.

Should be fun. His character just became a Templar himself and now has to work in a teaching position while trying to sort out his own crap. I smell a sitcom.

I'm also wondering if I can get my two hand cannons blessed by Simon, though... and if the initiation is even possible when my character can't speak.
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Psykoguy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the templar's got Evanor? Yikes.

And have fun on the squire route, but I'm not sure Simon would bless your hand cannons.
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Onymous
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm told he earned it. Almost half the party was mutated on that little adventure and if not for its blue chip ability he'd be dead several times over. Teller might also be dead without it, assuming our Marshal would even let that happen.

Maybe if I connected them by a chain... If not I can always pray I get one of those good ones or that maybe we find a nice knife sometime during the year. I'm really looking forward to Deadeye. Especially if our Marshal lets me stack it with the marksman aptitude. A shot at 140ft no penalty is drool worthy to say the least... Hope I don't piss off any Saints taking such a pragmatic approach to kickin' ass.
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Wendigo1870
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When one says 'loop-hole' you know you're basically trying to avoid your Oath. Most PC posses consist of good guys, who 'd help anyone in trouble who's not evil him/herself.
But practically this means the player playing the templar sits there all evening long, doing other stuff than just helping out. That's not fun for everyone; bored Templar player, annoyed Posse and a troubled Marshall.

Besides, I don't believe in people acting truly selfless, except in rpg's. That's why the Oath works in a rpg in which the boundaries are easy to see. But what when the line gets blurry?

Example: a village of good hardcore Christians (love thy neigbour, ...) helps all travellers (both worthy and unworthy) with food and shelter, which is good (according to their faith). They are also pacifistic, so when for example the Combine takes over the village, they cannot and won't defend themselves. Trying to do so will just get them killed, so that's stupid. They don't get shot up 'cause they don't offer resistance, and because they live, they can continue to help travellers, even though they have to listen to Combine authority.

What would a Templar do? Say: "You lot are nice folks 'n all, so pick up yer pitch-forks, we're gonna teach those SMG-toting Black Hats a lesson?"
or "You lot sicken me, turning you over to the Combine like that! It would've been worthier that you'd resist, knowing you'll surely die in the attempt!"

Choices, choices, ...
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Onymous
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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Location: California

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After getting the Wasting and SURVIVING (thank you, Ronan. You jackass) he bought his manna and lay on hands up to 5 and got the greater rewards.

Guess he didn't want that to happen to him or anyone else in the posse.

Since he has been enjoying his ability to heal the pose of horrible ailments like Syphilis (damn Spook Juice), TB and even the common cold (apparently quite petty Anti-Templars). That and eating things he shouldn't for full nutrition. Like, say, someones feet. Gives him one hell of an overawe bonus but I have to wonder is he's got a short stack of corruption points going.

He's Okinawan and is going for classic Templar. Spends an exorbitant amount of money on armor which I can only ponder at how he hides it under his cloak. Suppose it doesn't matter. He's had Jenny Hise since session 1, if you catch my drift.

---

Our Templar-to-be is an repentant Anti-Templar who decided a black tabard might not be for him when he caught his warband leader slapping around the captured Companion and Squire of the Templar they had attacked earlier that day. Caught the classic monologue about the Anti-Templars usual recruiting techniques and stabbed his master in the back.

Doesn't really have a tabard to Clark Kent with so he just rushes into any and all enemies we find face-first swinging the sword of the Templar he'd killed. Yearnin' 5: To be a Templar. Might just get it too. After he admitted it to Simon our group vouched for him (once everyone picked up their jaws.) Also, holding Despair and a plus size Black Tabard could potentially sway even the likes of Simon.

What I'm really curious about is if he becomes a straight Templar or has to go the full term as Squire.

---

Our groups Companion "The Duke" could best be described as a 6'7" Mel Gibson (Road Warrior, friends) with a pompadore. Likes to punch things or blast them with his shotgun. Loves his car Betsy. Really sporadic personality so he gets and loses an average of about 3 saints per session. Favorite quote is "I'm Brawny, I can take it." Guess its true but I'm waiting for the day I can add it to the "famous last words" board. Really thought I was about there when he had to drive his car out of the blast radius of a ghost rock bomb as it was going off, grabbed a black hole, and was about to be turned into tofu (Marshals'll get it). So far he's only lost an eye and gained a few mutations though. Noxious gas leaking out of his arms and he can only survive on... noxious fumes. Same ghost rock bomb, if you can believe it.

---

Then there's me. Little mute kid who was raised by wolves (can you believe we didn't plan for the whole Road Warrior thing at all?). Wants to become the youngest Templar ever by 4 years. Simon OK'd it, only 8 months to go. Wish me luck.

All the potential Squires sitting around Boise don't think I'm up to scratch but they pretty well ran out of material when they saw how I could handle my .50 cal revolvers. Hoping to get animal companion up to greater reward since we've actually run into my family a few times over the course of the campaign and it turns out they're wolves of the dire variety.
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Talahar
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool stuff.... i hope to get to play a templar if we ever go into the wasted west....
(hopefully with savage worlds rules, so please hurry up pinnacle Wink )

i'd do the whole "wearing the tabard under the disguise"-shtick for clark-kenting out, too Wink
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Fuzyfeet
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I ran my Wolf and Lawton games years ago Wolf wore his tabrt all the bloody time. The only other thing he wore that much was his Wormling Skin armor he had made from all the Wormlings he killed...
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