Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

[SPC2] Power Points alternative

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
LukeZ
Seasoned


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: [SPC2] Power Points alternative Reply with quote

Power Points Fixed
16 (+2 per Super Karma) Pulp Heroes
32 (+4 per Super Karma) Street Fighters
48 (+6 per Super Karma) Four Color
64 (+8 per Super Karma) Heavy Hitters
80 (+10 per Super Karma) Cosmic

Power Points Rising Star
8 (+2 per Super Karma & every Power Edge) Pulp Heroes
16 (+4 per Super Karma & every Power Edge) Street Fighters
24 (+6 per Super Karma & every Power Edge) Four Color
32 (+8 per Super Karma & every Power Edge) Heavy Hitters
40 (+10 per Super Karma & every Power Edge) Cosmic

For both, the Power Limit is half the number of PP (Super Karma excluded).

What do you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syntruth
Novice


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this, other than more starting points. In which case, sure, why not? Very Happy If that works for your game, go for it, says I!

In my supers game, using Rising Stars at Street Fighter Level, you can get 20 points. 10 to start, 5 for Novice Power Points Edge, and 5 for Super Karma. The Power Limit being 10, which is half of what you get. I've made quite a collection of very different and interesting characters with these limits.

With your alternative, the max with the same settings would be 24 points, which isn't a whole lot, so shouldn't be too breaking of the power curve or anything. You're not going to get a whole lot with that 4 points, that is to say. The higher Power Limit would allow more flexibility, but I haven't ran into that issue with the above RAW at all with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LukeZ
Seasoned


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted a system with similar rules (and similar PP distribution) between the Fixed system and the Rising Star system.

I also think Rising Stars should increase their Power Limit and the Power Edge for a Pupl Hero should keep the same "ratio" as a Power Edge for a Cosmic character.
If it always gives 5 PP, then if will be MUCH more useful for a Pulp Hero...

For comparison, here is the maximum number of PP by system:

Fixed (house rule vs original)
18 vs 20
36 vs 35
54 vs 55
72 vs 70
90 vs 85

Rising Star (house rule vs original)
20 vs 35
40 vs 40
60 vs 55
80 vs 65
100 vs 85
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jounichi
Heroic


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 1735
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The power limit for Rising Stars is, by default, your initial power point total. A Four Color character, by the RAW, as a limit of 20 points per power. At legendary, they could conceivably have two powers with 20 points and 15 leftover for other powers.

In any case, what you're suggesting looks an awful lot like the old sliding scale. I don't know which is better, and I don't really have a strong feeling either way, but it was done away with and we saw Out Of Their League get significantly retooled. There's also no official setting which supports Rising Stars yet, but we'll probably get a good idea as far as play balance once Necessary Evil: Breakout! finally sees print.

For the record: that campaign teaser from a Gencon poster said it would be tooled for Street Fighters and not the Four Color heroes the original campaign was written for. I just thought it was worth mentioning.

I'm actually really surprised you adjusted the Four Color heroes at all. That's the standard of measure across both systems since the totals are the same.
_________________
"Rush not in to fights. Long is the war. Only by surviving it, will you prevail." -Yoda
"Wise man once say, 'forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.'" -Michelangelo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LukeZ
Seasoned


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my "problems" is exaclty that: if the number of PP for a Four Color hero is the same both for the Fixed and for the Rising Star (maxed), why it isn't the same for the other levels?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jounichi
Heroic


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 1735
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeZ wrote:
One of my "problems" is exaclty that: if the number of PP for a Four Color hero is the same both for the Fixed and for the Rising Star (maxed), why it isn't the same for the other levels?

I can't say, but I don't think it really matters, either. Since everyone in the party is going to be at the same power level, the difficulty of the campaign will be the same across the board. This isn't like the old rules; where Out Of Their League meant working with fewer PPs than everyone else.

Let's take a second look at the math. While it's true that a Rising Star Pulp Hero can be Legendary with the same total PP as a default Street Fighter, never forget the Pulp Hero has to first acquire 80 XP and spend 5 advances to get to that point. Even if they both have 80 XP, the default Street Fighter will be better off. Nothing will change that.

And that's a big draw. Those 5 advances are worth quite a bit, as is being able to start a campaign with all your PPs up front. It tips the scales considerably in favor of the players.

Now you could always rule that, in a Pulp Heroes or Street Fighter game, players can only take Power Points up to their normal limit. That would basically mean a Pulp Hero can max out at Seasoned and a Street Fighter would top off at Heroic. As for the other end of the scale, just let Heavy Hitters start with 35 PP instead of 30. Four Color and Cosmic are already fine.

But like I said before: what does it matter? You're not going to have different players at different levels of power. The biggest gap you'd likely ever see between players in a Rising Stars adventure is 5 PP, and that isn't going to break the game.
_________________
"Rush not in to fights. Long is the war. Only by surviving it, will you prevail." -Yoda
"Wise man once say, 'forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.'" -Michelangelo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LukeZ
Seasoned


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jounichi wrote:


But like I said before: what does it matter? You're not going to have different players at different levels of power. The biggest gap you'd likely ever see between players in a Rising Stars adventure is 5 PP, and that isn't going to break the game.


You could have NPC made with one system that cannot be used in the other.
Ok, NPC can break the rules, but still I think a "unified" mechanic would have been more streamlined (and faster to apply to any system).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syntruth
Novice


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeZ wrote:
Ok, NPC can break the rules, but still I think a "unified" mechanic would have been more streamlined (and faster to apply to any system).


I'd argue that NPCs can't break the rules because they were never bound to them in the first place. Wink

That said, I would never "cross" point systems between NPCs and PCs, personally, in the first place. If I am making my PCs use the Rising Stars option (and I am) then I make sure my NPCs are in the same scale with them. Even to the fact that returning villains will get more powerful down the road. That actually hasn't happened in our game yet; my players just obtained Season this past Saturday.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LukeZ
Seasoned


Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syntruth wrote:
That said, I would never "cross" point systems between NPCs and PCs, personally, in the first place. If I am making my PCs use the Rising Stars option (and I am) then I make sure my NPCs are in the same scale with them. Even to the fact that returning villains will get more powerful down the road. That actually hasn't happened in our game yet; my players just obtained Season this past Saturday.


Yes, the idea is that NPC created to fight Rising Stars characters shouldn't be used for Upfront characters (and vice versa).
I hate exceptions...

And the Power Limits for Rising Stars Four Colors (and up) is almost meaningless, while it's always important for all the Upfront.
I would have preferred a lower limit that increased with the PP...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
syntruth
Novice


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, use what you want in your game. Smile SW makes it easy to do that. I think the shining point of Rising Stars is flexibility and a sense of growth to the character beyond just new Edges and the like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jounichi
Heroic


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 1735
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeZ wrote:
Jounichi wrote:


But like I said before: what does it matter? You're not going to have different players at different levels of power. The biggest gap you'd likely ever see between players in a Rising Stars adventure is 5 PP, and that isn't going to break the game.

You could have NPC made with one system that cannot be used in the other.
Ok, NPC can break the rules, but still I think a "unified" mechanic would have been more streamlined (and faster to apply to any system).

NPCs can be whatever you want. There are plenty of magic users in SW who have "as many Power Points as needed." Just give them whatever you think makes sense. Building a character, even an NPC, is pretty easy. I'm not sure why you're so concerned with how fast it is to apply. It's pretty fast already. It's certainly nothing like assigning spell slots in that other game.

As a great example of "balance" in a Supers game, Dr. Destruction from Necessary Evil has somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-90 Power Points, and that was back when the game maxed out at 40 Power Points per player. I also happen to think he's a little weak and bumped him up some for my game. It wasn't hard at all. I even tweaked him again to line up with the SPC2 for when the next book comes out; assuming they don't have updated stats listed there, and even then I'll probably merge it what I have.

Ultimately the only "unified" mechanic which matters is character balance with respect to one another. So long as they're all built using the same rules and choice is left up to the players on how to proceed everything will be alright.
_________________
"Rush not in to fights. Long is the war. Only by surviving it, will you prevail." -Yoda
"Wise man once say, 'forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.'" -Michelangelo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum