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Advice on negative charisma
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Jux
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Advice on negative charisma Reply with quote

I have a player who has found a dumpstat in SW and has managed to have charisma -5 and in certain situations -7. I need some ideas how to make his life more difficult because of that.
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Kythkyn
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one should like him. Ever.

You ever been out and seen some guy and, without even knowing him you're like "I don't like that guy"? Yeah? That's his character. Even a bank teller or fast food worker should be dismissive with him at best. Sure, even "that guy" has friends, but he isn't going to make any fast, so he'd better hope to stay on the good side of the other PCs.
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Wibbs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Hindrances has he taken to make it that low? A few more details from you would give us plenty of ammunition to throw his direction.
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Jux
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a Hellfrost setting, where he is taiga elf (more exotic race). Charisma: -2 for non-elves, -2 for exposing Hrimwizardry, -2 for being an Outcast, -1 for exposing Habit


I still need more examples, like encounters, where I can prove, that charisma matters Smile
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Wibbs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, off the top of my head...

As a Hrimwizard, if this is known then many communities will see him as a social pariah, particularly those further north. He can expect to be hounded out of villages and chased with pitchforks, particularly if something negative happens in the locale and he can be blamed.

The non-elf thing would be more subtle, but should definately come in to play if they are interacting with merchants and such like.

What do you mean by Outcast? Do you mean the Outsider Hindrance? If so, what is it that makes them an outsider above and beyond the fact they are an elf and hrimwisard? Also, what is the habit?

To be honest, with a -6/-7 Charisma, I would start ruling that their mere presence is going to impact other PC persuasion and streetwise rolls. Who is going to want to give a party member information when there is a horrible elf/hrim-wisard associated with them? The party might find the cost of goods and services mysteriously increased when they are around, and they are likely to get a lot of things blamed on them simply for being associated with the unpleaseant character.
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GranFalloon
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the group seeks hospitality, it is given only grudgingly. The lord of a hall may allow the group under his roof, but "that one sleeps in the stables." When they're dealing with merchants, well, the first minute of this happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh0yfYUCkIw
Also this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGbvYkCLZ9U
-5 to -7 is a lot more than just rubbing people the wrong way. He's closer to the bum on the bus who reeks of liquor, cigarettes and urine, arguing loudly with nobody. Most everyone will keep their distance, and if he's attacked in the street, nobody will help. Walled cities may refuse him entry, and even if he gets in, he'll be thrown out or arrested if any trouble happens around him.

I would mostly try and remember stories of blatant racism you've heard, and apply those.
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a player whose character has -10 Charisma, which I didn't think was even possible.

(Half-Orc with Bloodthirsty, Mean, Ugly, Outsider.)

I use the reaction table a lot. People who don't know him might roll high enough to be neutral, but once they get to know him, they attack him on sight.

He spends a lot of time in the woods outside town, watching the horses. They don't like him either.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to keep in mind is Hindrances that provide a negative Charisma typically do that in addition to other listed effects.

Ugly folks tend to be shunned.
Outsiders? "Locals are likely to raise prices on the Outsider, ignore pleas for help, and generally treat him as if hes of a lower class than the rest of their society."
The Bloodthirsty don't take prisoners and just kill foes wantonly with all the potential problems that entails.
Even Mean characters need to act mean to earn Bennies for their Hindrance. And if being "nice" might normally earn them a Benny, the Hindrance basically makes them ineligible for that.

Just saying, there is typically a whole other side to these Hindrance other than just the Charisma hit.
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Jux
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaa ... good stuff! Yes, he has outsider hindrance - I am going to ask more details about that. About his bad habit - he does not wash himself. He just lets the bigger dirt to "freeze away" Smile.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jux wrote:
Hahaa ... good stuff! Yes, he has outsider hindrance - I am going to ask more details about that. About his bad habit - he does not wash himself. He just lets the bigger dirt to "freeze away" Smile.

So, he is that foul-smelling bum who wanders into town. The one the constable immediately runs out of town. They only reason they don't burn him alive is that they don't want that smell to permeate the town. Laughing
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Cutter XXIII
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sablemage wrote:
He spends a lot of time in the woods outside town, watching the horses. They don't like him either.

Laughing "That nag kicked me again!"

Excellent.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jux wrote:
Hahaa ... good stuff! Yes, he has outsider hindrance - I am going to ask more details about that. About his bad habit - he does not wash himself. He just lets the bigger dirt to "freeze away" Smile.


If this is truly a case of the player thinking it is a "dumpstat," you might want to give them a head's up before the other shoe drops.

Suddenly going from...

"Ha! I'll let others make the Persuasion and Streetwise rolls and this will never affect me!"

...to...

"The people treat you like low-class feared-magic using literally dirty elf that you chose to create. And that the rest of you choose to associate with."

...is likely to be a bit of a shock at the very least.
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SeeleyOne
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint is right, I have seen players that thought that they came up with a cool concept to have things work out not as expected. It can easily lead to very bad feelings and is NOT fun.

What it really comes down to is communication. After explaining the effect of chosen hindrances you could give the player a chance to either make a switcheroo in his current character or make a new character (perhaps with the same XP). In the long run the group will be glad for a change in the offensive character.

Hindrances really are meant to be hindrances. Care must be taken when choosing them because they really can have a serious effect on the fun of the game. It might be fun, at least a little, to be hated by everyone, but eventually it makes the player feel like he or she is being picked on and bullied, EVEN THOUGH the hindrances, especially of that quanity, effectively force that upon the character. Most people do not like to be bullied, even when they deserve it.

And another thing to consider that the other PCs, who are on "the same team" will also tend to bully or dislike the character (at least sometimes). This creates intra-party conflict. This can be minor, but it can also get out of hand, all in the name of "role playing" or "staying in character".

There ARE ways to make it work, but those are the exception and generally not suggested for more than a few sessions.
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Sadric
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, doesnt change your way you handle this charisma to aprupt. It will surprise the player and will maybe lead to bad feelings.

But for ideas that show what the bad charisma stat does....
What if an employer roll on the reaction table.

You know, the group handle with a caravan merchant about guard duty.
100 goldpieces per groupmember.
When he sees the THING he frown (make a reaction roll) and say he has a better offer from some traveling country lads. He isnt longer interested in the group.

This is a problem for you, because often adventures suppose a group that work for someone, and it will be harder for you to get a story without this
basic.
But it will show your player that its hard to be a hero if you couldnt work for your money, you have to steal it . Twisted Evil
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Jux
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Good advice again. I didn't think at first it can become a serious problem at our gaming table.
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Jux
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadric wrote:

What if an employer roll on the reaction table.


What is a reaction table? Where is it?
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Sadric
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deluxe edition page 26?
I allways modify the roll by charisma, but as I read it im not sure if its correct?
I would simply say a Hostile reaction against this group member means he didnt hire the whole group because this UGLY "THING".
Even with Charisma -5 it would be very often.

And city guards dont let him in the village at Hostile. Uncooperative means he have to pay hefty bribes to enter a village.
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nielsle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you could aim for a few memorable experiences, but don't let it spoil the game:
The party tries to enter a city, but the city guard denies them entrance, so they have to climb over the city wall and sneak in like thieves in the night.
The party eats at an inn, and everybody else leaves the room, The owner is friendly, but asks them to leave because they damage his business.
The party are allowed to sleep in a village, but a posse of villagers arrive with pitch forks in the middle of the night to drive him out.
A little kid approaches the character, but the kids mother quickly fetches the kid and subsequently accuses him of witchcraft.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadric wrote:
Deluxe edition page 26?
I allways modify the roll by charisma, but as I read it im not sure if its correct?

In previous editions, it was affected by Charisma. Since Charisma affects your ability to improve reactions, that rule double-dipped Charisma (good or bad). Which is probably why it was changed.

I'd simply rule that all employers realize what a monster the party associates with and drop their reaction one degree. Below Neutral, they really want to hire someone else.
This should affect pay rates, bonus pay, and getting hired in the first place. And make sure it's clear why the party is getting hit so hard - the -3 for hanging out with an unwashed elf is pretty bad but not quite bad enough. The -5 for hanging out with that smelly elf is a real problem, and the fact that he's a hrimwizard makes it utterly revolting. The merchant could lose business if word gets out he associated with that creature!


Good luck!
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloodthirsty - he's likely to be wanted for murder. Heck, a mob shows up, or someone picks a fight with him in a bar (becuase he was MEAN to them), and he KILLS THEM. in a bar fight. Now he's on trial.
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