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Edges with Hindrances as prerequisites

 
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Edges with Hindrances as prerequisites Reply with quote

I know that there's at least one Edge that is restricted for characters with a certain Hindrance -- you can't take Brawny if you have the Obese Hindrance.

What about the reverse? An Edge with a Hindrance as a prerequisite?

Here's an example I though up... a modified version of the Scavenger Edge.

I'd call it Sticky Fingers. Instead of having Luck as the prerequisite, you have to have the Quirk (Kleptomania) Hindrance. Basically, the character is constantly picking up and pocketing small objects. Aside from that, it works just like the Scavenger Edge.

Has anyone tried writing Edges that require a certain Hindrance? Good idea or bad idea? Very Happy
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Bhoritz
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love that idea. There could be some wonderful combinations. I'll have to think about it.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's been thought of before (I thought of one earlier this week), but I don't recall seeing any in publication.
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Citrine
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this for my homebrew Sorcerer/Psionics (same ruleset, different trappings):

Arcane Background (Sorcery/Psionics)
Requirements: Novice, One of the following - Outsider (Hindrance), Quirk (Exotic Looks) (Hindrance), Attractive (Edge), Fiery (Hindrance), Charismatic (Edge), Habit (Hindrance), Wow (Hindrance), Lucky (Edge), Brave (Hindrance)
Arcane Skill: One per power, At skill d8 and d12, you can choose a new trapping for that power.
Starting Powers (Sorcery): 1 + Detect Arcana (Touch) + Dispel (At Seasoned)
Starting Powers (Psionics): 1 + Mind Reading (Touch) + Telekinesis (At Seasoned)
Starting Power Points: 20
Due to an unusual ancestor like a fey or an outerplanar entity, a quirk of nature or perhaps a boon from a higher power, you have strange and unusual magical abilities. Your abilities are innate and you cannot teach your ability to others or learn powers from others. Sorcerers and psions have to use the New Power edge to gain new powers.
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Drue
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was knocking around some home-brew ideas with another gm where specific combinations of hindrances would grant free edges; stuff like:
* heroic + code of honour > charismatic
* heroic + overconfident > luck

Probably had 5-10 combinations considered.

This was predicated on hindrances being limited to no more than four points, but it didn't matter how you got there -- 2 major or 4 minor were ok.

We thought it had potential in certain genres; have not field tested it though.
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Cryonic
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds more like something that a player would use to define the personality of the character based on their edges/hindrances. A player with Kleptomania and Scavenger wouldn't need anything mechanically (an edge with a hindrance combo), just describe their character as sticky-fingered. Same with the other combinations.
The reason for the opposite (Brawny can't be taken by Obese) is to avoid the mixing of things that, realistically, don't go together. You can be brawny and describe your character like he's The Blob from X-men or be Obese and you are "Fat Bas....d" from Austin Powers. In both cases your guy is larger than average, but mechanically are very different.
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference would be that with Sticky Fingers you wouldn't have to take Luck first, but you would need to have that Hindrance.
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jpk
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've considered something like Beneath Me, an Edge that gives a bonus to Soak rolls against foreigners that required the Jingoistic Hindrance as a prerequisite, so I see where you going.
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Jordan Peacock
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main concern is that it might necessarily impact how Hindrances are played. Right now, the way I run things, "roleplay" Hindrances rely a great deal on player discretion.

The way I've interpreted it, just because you're Bloodthirsty doesn't mean that you'll always ALWAYS do the bloodiest, thirstiest thing, when it's patently clear that someone is watching and it's going to get you killed in short order. Just because you're Curious doesn't mean that every single time anything remotely resembling a "mystery" shows up, you're obliged to bring everything else to a halt until you've "solved" it (even if it's inherently unsolvable). And so on.

If you DO stick to your Bloodthirsty or Curious Hindrances even when it's likely to cost you, however, that's often an excuse for me to toss a Benny the player's way for sticking to character over player pragmatism. I've even considered that if a player wanted to, he could even tack on additional Hindrances above and beyond his normal maximum, for the sake of further defining his role (and maybe occasionally earning more Bennies for it), but with the understanding that it wouldn't grant him any more character points.

(And, if I'm using the Weird Wars / Horror Companion Sanity rules and someone picks up a new Quirk -- and PLAYS it -- it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's another role-play opportunity.)

If the player has a Hindrance on his sheet, but it has no prescribed game effect (e.g., Bad Luck, One Eye, and Lame have specific effects upon game-play, bad roleplaying or not), I don't worry too much if the player is finding an excuse NOT to stick to it any time it might actually be a Hindrance, because, hey, the player is "paying" for it in that he won't be getting any Bennies for great roleplaying.

However, once there's a benefit brought into the equation, I feel like I might be obliged to "police" things a little more. If there's some Edge that requires that you have the Heroic Hindrance first, and the character acts like a complete scoundrel at every opportunity, I'd feel like the system is being gamed. At that point, I'm not sure whether I would feel justified in negating the Edge (but then will the player feel cheated because he "wasted" an Advance?), or whether I should "force" the player to be in character, or what.

I'm not saying "Hindrance as prerequisite" for an Edge or other benefit is a bad idea at all. Actually, I find it quite interesting! I just think it might require a little more clarification on how I should (or should not) be "policing" the roleplaying of Hindrances, for any Hindrances that have a roleplay element. (If it's a Hindrance such as Lame or One Leg or One Eye or Ugly, well, hey, I have nothing to worry about. ;D )

Of course, maybe I'm just DOING it all wrong, and if I were doing it correctly, this would be a moot point.
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cryonic wrote:
This sounds more like something that a player would use to define the personality of the character based on their edges/hindrances. A player with Kleptomania and Scavenger wouldn't need anything mechanically (an edge with a hindrance combo), just describe their character as sticky-fingered. Same with the other combinations.
The reason for the opposite (Brawny can't be taken by Obese) is to avoid the mixing of things that, realistically, don't go together. You can be brawny and describe your character like he's The Blob from X-men or be Obese and you are "Fat Bas....d" from Austin Powers. In both cases your guy is larger than average, but mechanically are very different.

Yeah, but in cases like the Blob, and people like Kingpin, They are indeed both Obese and Brawny.
Always wondered about that but I didn't find it worth the bother of changing it.



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jpk
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snate56 wrote:
Yeah, but in cases like the Blob, and people like Kingpin, They are indeed both Obese and Brawny.
Always wondered about that but I didn't find it worth the bother of changing it.

In general, I don't recall either of them having a reduced Pace (though, it being comics, I'm sure they've had every combination of effect in their span of publication depending on the writer).

But the key there is that neither of them would be made in the core rules, really. They'd be made with the Super Powers Companion system (or Necessary Evil), and their size would largely be a trapping of their powers.

Interpretations will, of course, vary wildly.
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tigerguy786
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpk wrote:
Snate56 wrote:
Yeah, but in cases like the Blob, and people like Kingpin, They are indeed both Obese and Brawny.
Always wondered about that but I didn't find it worth the bother of changing it.

In general, I don't recall either of them having a reduced Pace (though, it being comics, I'm sure they've had every combination of effect in their span of publication depending on the writer).

But the key there is that neither of them would be made in the core rules, really. They'd be made with the Super Powers Companion system (or Necessary Evil), and their size would largely be a trapping of their powers.

Interpretations will, of course, vary wildly.


In regards to the Blob and the SPC, I don't know how I'd do his 'immovable' power. the strength, size and toughness is easy enough, but really not sure how to make his power to stay in one place
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigerguy786 wrote:
In regards to the Blob and the SPC, I don't know how I'd do his 'immovable' power. the strength, size and toughness is easy enough, but really not sure how to make his power to stay in one place

Clint has previously suggested making it a modifier.
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Thunderforge
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: Edges with Hindrances as prerequisites Reply with quote

SavageGamerGirl wrote:
Has anyone tried writing Edges that require a certain Hindrance?

There's one in Hell on Earth Reloaded. The Law Dog Edge requires, among other things, "Major Vow (bring law to the Wastes)".

Personally, I think it would have been better to automatically add the Hindrance upon taking the Edge (kind of like how the Noble Edge adds "duties that need to be performed" as a side effect). Also giving it to them with the Edge means that they're more likely to take other Hindrances because they won't be getting Hindrance points for this Hindrance they were planning on taking anyway.
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Cryonic
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snate56 wrote:
Cryonic wrote:
This sounds more like something that a player would use to define the personality of the character based on their edges/hindrances. A player with Kleptomania and Scavenger wouldn't need anything mechanically (an edge with a hindrance combo), just describe their character as sticky-fingered. Same with the other combinations.
The reason for the opposite (Brawny can't be taken by Obese) is to avoid the mixing of things that, realistically, don't go together. You can be brawny and describe your character like he's The Blob from X-men or be Obese and you are "Fat Bas....d" from Austin Powers. In both cases your guy is larger than average, but mechanically are very different.

Yeah, but in cases like the Blob, and people like Kingpin, They are indeed both Obese and Brawny.
Always wondered about that but I didn't find it worth the bother of changing it.



SteveN


They are both based on the real world, but not based on the mechanical benefits/penalties defined by those particular Edge/Hindrance.

Obese (Minor) - Those who carry their weight well have Brawny, not Obese. Those that don't carry their weight well are Obese.

Kingpin, The Blob, Juggernaut, Sabertooth, etc... are Brawny.
Jabba the Hutt, Boss Nass (the Gungan King), Lost's Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, etc... would have the Obese disadvantage.
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