Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Pfr_Fate]

It seems that some if not most players coming from that other rpg have an initial trouble with the cards for Inititative. I think I know why and may have a solution.

It may stem from simply... control issues. Players feel more in control and connected when they are physically rolling an initiative die as opposed to having the ref deal them a card. Ponder that for a moment.

The solution may be to simply divide the deck after shuffling, keeping some for the ref and putting the rest on the table. Let the players draw in turn from the 'player deck' doing everything accordingly for edges and such. The ref draws from his deck. When a joker occurs, finish the round as usual, collect all cards, shuffle and divide the deck again.

I have not had the chance to try this yet and wonder how it will play out psychologically.

If anyone tries it out on those resistant crossover players ...let me know!
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The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

[Pfr_Fate]

Initial thoughts???
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The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

[Enno]

Why not simply pass the deck around between conflicts, so that every player has at least the opportunity to deal this evening once.

Or just put the deck in the center of the table, where every participant can take his initiative cards by himself.

Every group has their own variant in dealing the cards. Thats OK if you ask me, and really no big...
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There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't.

[Drue]

Or single action deck and a player deals the cards.

Not so much a control issue as logistics. With players running the action deck, moving miniatures, drawing maps, etc., the game pace doesn't slow waiting for one person to do everything.

[Dylan S]

Or, "Pick a card, any card..."

[Noshrok Grimskull]

[Jordan Peacock]

What sort of "trouble" are they having? Do they not understand the use of cards? Or complain because they don't get to roll dice? Or is it that they complain because their stats do not have any impact on where they get to go in the round? (E.g., "I have high Agility so surely that means I should go first!") Or something else?
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[Virgobrown72]

Their characters can take Edges that can improve thier initiative situation. I think they don't like the randomness of not having a static number for initiative. Savage Worlds isn't that game though...
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"Anything smaller is just fiddly, and fiddly is not one of SvgW's three Fs..."

[Kythkyn]

I shuffle at the start of the night (and when a joker is dealt), but I allow my players to physically draw their card. It made it more fun for them than being handed a card, plus it took the anger of drawing a 2 away from me (hehe)

Oh, and I replaced my authoritative "roll inish" with the equally authoritative "draw inish".
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俺是一個挺累的狐蝠。

[Other Mike]

[Pfr_Fate]

Welll...as to my players, I have a mix. Some Old School that rolled a d6 init every round, and some 4e young uns that rolled once per combat encounter.

They intellectually understood that the cards were as random as dice, that in order to have a menaingful effect you needed an edge (kinda like a +5 on the d20 init roll), and that it was superior in that there would never be re-rolls on doubles.

However, something didn't 'feel right' for some of them. i ignored their feelings in favor of the logic but they were somehow unconvinced. So, I thought that it was perhaps the control issue!

The only reason I would put half the deck behind the screen for the Ref is only out of speed and the desire to not reach across the table. Disregarding such, it would be just as good to keep the deck whole and on the table.

The main thrust of the argument is about the players actively involved in the initiative activity as opposed to being largely reactive...of course tht doesn't change the randomness.

I suppose it is the same reason why some people think dice run hot or cold....
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The eternal struggle takes time, Max.

[Other Mike]

[tigerguy786]

Also, there are lots of ways to mess with Initiative:

(Improved) Level Headed, Quick, and there are a couple of leadership edges that allow you to play with the cards. In the Core rules it allows you to roll Knowledge(Battle) and get cards to distribute. There's one in Suzerain that allows you to re-order the cards from willing participants
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TIGER, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

[supercOntra]

Why not just take turns dealing or put the cards somewhere where everyone can draw their own card. That way the players can make their mojo before drawing ensuring the jokers come up when needed
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"Eyes without life…sundered heads…piles of carcasses…these are pleasing words to me"
http://www.savageslaine.com

[Sean-Khan]

I've divided the decks that way just for efficiency; Instead of collecting and distributing usually 5-9 player cards (some bonus cards) and then npc cards, I now draw only the npc cards and let players handle their own cards.
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Shaper & Maker - modelling, gaming & a lot of other stuff

[Jux]

I like the random initiative, but I hate when it is time to resolve who goes first, the GM starts to count down. Being usually the GM, I find it a bit slow and takes you out of the game for a moment. But I don't know a better solution either. Comparing the initiative numbers (when using dice) takes even longer.

[Clint]

The "issue" I see with splitting the deck between the players and the GM is equally perceptual...

"Yeah, but you have all the high cards/Jokers in your deck, so we're boned this combat."

Sure, logically, all the uses would eventually balance out, but all it takes is that one combat where the GM pulls 3 Aces and two Jokers, and players won't remember the time the PCs got the same because it's one person drawing all those cards vs. dividing up the same results between each player.

If it truly is a perceptual control situation, then is there a logistical reason not to simply pass the deck around the table?

GM hands the deck to the person to his right, who draws their card/cards, then passes to the next person to his right and so on. Eventually the deck comes back to the GM from the person to his left, and he draws his cards for the NPCs.

I know someone who does this (he actually alternates passing the cards to his right with passing them to his left, so one person isn't always first or last), and it seems to work fine. It actually works really well for larger groups than having to toss a card to someone eight feet away.

[ValhallaGH]

[Clint]

[ValhallaGH]