Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The implications of capping the exploding damage dice.
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: The implications of capping the exploding damage dice. Reply with quote

One aspect of SW some of my players are having issues with is exploding/acing damage.

While they agree on the principles, it sometimes feel like it can lead to exceedingly uncontrollable outcomes. This is due to two factors:

1. damage, unlike everything else, is a dice pool; this makes the odds of having something "ace" much higher.

2. the mechanic that "counters" such exploding damage is a soak roll, which is still a single dice result; despite the soak roll having the advantage of not having to subtract toughness, this leads to "lucky" rolls being almost impossible to counter.


I'm finding that "erosion" (people taking one wound, then two, then dying) is a relatively rare occurence, and most monsters (and players) simply go down when someone opens enough 6s to make the damage impossible to soak. This is particularly obvious with casters/archers (the 2/3d6 damage pools are incredibly prone to lucky damage explosions).
It also favours sensibly those who roll several "small" dice compared to a d10+d12 fighter.


One option we were considering is having each die possibly explode only once - so if you roll a 8 and a 6 on a d8+d6 roll, you get to roll 1d8 and 1d6 again, but if one of those ace, you don't roll anymore.

The question here is: is there any balancing issue with taking such approach? Is the game balanced around multiple acing damage rolls? Will this make high Toughness monsters exceedingly hard to kill?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glitch
Novice


Joined: 30 May 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One option is to use the part of the pulp rules that state that non wild card npcs' damage rolls simply don't ace.

That makes your players more exceptional, at least until they go head to head with a wild card. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Inar
Heroic


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1747
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go with the op[tion that you can ace once for extras as I wouldn't want someone with a 9 toughness feel that they have no chance of being hurt by someone with Str 4 wielding a dagger. With a single ace on both dice, that 9 toughness guy is still looking at the possibility of 16 damage, which is a wound, and with a wild attack is two wounds. Without that single ace possibility, the best he could ever do is a shaken and that is with a wild attack.

If you wanted to cap WC rolls, you could cap aces to 3 for WCs. This mainly nerfs runaway d4s (but still leaves a maximum 48 damage if both d4s ace three time) since three aces with d8 damage is still a minimum of 26 points of damage.
_________________
Lord Inar
Rocky Mountain Savages
SharkBytes
Best Internet page ever


Last edited by Lord Inar on Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zadmar
Legendary


Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 2240
Location: Munich

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sidney wrote:
I'm finding that "erosion" (people taking one wound, then two, then dying) is a relatively rare occurence, and most monsters (and players) simply go down when someone opens enough 6s to make the damage impossible to soak.

You could say that damage dice only explode if they fail to cause any wounds - but further rule that exploding damage dice can never inflict more than one wound.

That way those lucky rolls will make it possible to hurt even the toughest of monsters, but one-shot kills would need to be done without acing.

Sidney wrote:
This is particularly obvious with casters/archers (the 2/3d6 damage pools are incredibly prone to lucky damage explosions).
It also favours sensibly those who roll several "small" dice compared to a d10+d12 fighter.

Another possibility (which I also mentioned here) would be to place a limit on the number of damage dice that can ace - for example, only allow the player to reroll a maximum of two dice (but they pick which two, and those could ace again).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Inar
Heroic


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1747
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course one of the key problems is that people don't really know how to roll dice! If you had raises use a different die (of the same type) I can almost guarantee that explosions will decrease!
_________________
Lord Inar
Rocky Mountain Savages
SharkBytes
Best Internet page ever
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still sort of feel like having each die possibly explode only once is a fairly balanced solution.

For example:

Archer shooting to the head and getting a raise: 3d6+4. If all dice ace, and he rolls all 6s again, he caps at 40 damage (still enough to kill anything twice).

In a more normal scenario, say 3 - 4 - 6, opening the 6 can lead to going from 18 to 23 damage, but a second 6 doesn't lead to more than that.

It's true that there's a few monsters (those with Toughness going from 16-17 to over 20) who will become exceedingly hard to kill, but the alternative right now is something along the lines of either being impossible to wound or dying in one blow.

The problem is mostly evident to me when fighting enemies with toughnesses over 10 - the average damage roll generally fails to penetrate them, but once you have any dice ace, you're probably looking at multiple wounds. It sort of defeats the idea of a "resilient" enemy because, so far, most of them have been one shotted by a lucky exploding roll (which, once again, isn't that rare expecially when rolling d6s).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cryonic
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing a wound to an extra, or more than 3 wounds to a Wild Card doesn't mean they are Dead. In fact the worst that happens at 4+ wounds is that they are "Incapacitated" and will need to roll on the chart to see if they actually die or take a permanent injury.
I've had to get this issue through the heads of my players. So, capping acing really doesn't do much of anything. Plus you can't ace on objects. So it only applies to flesh and blood creatures anyways, heheh.
_________________
My Blog of Random Gaming: http://www.daemonstorm.com

Savage Worlds Tales: http://www.daemonstorm.com/category/Categories/Role-playing/Savage-Worlds
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Inar
Heroic


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1747
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cryonic wrote:
Doing a wound to an extra, or more than 3 wounds to a Wild Card doesn't mean they are Dead. In fact the worst that happens at 4+ wounds is that they are "Incapacitated" and will need to roll on the chart to see if they actually die or take a permanent injury.
I've had to get this issue through the heads of my players. So, capping acing really doesn't do much of anything. Plus you can't ace on objects. So it only applies to flesh and blood creatures anyways, heheh.


But say you start off unwounded and you get hit for either four wounds or seven wounds and you are rolling to draw down the number of wounds, there is a big difference between trying to get a single success and getting two raises on the roll.

Also, you can clearly ace against robot men or golems or zombies, none of which are living flesh and blood so I'm missing that last point.
_________________
Lord Inar
Rocky Mountain Savages
SharkBytes
Best Internet page ever
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Inar
Heroic


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1747
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sidney wrote:
It sort of defeats the idea of a "resilient" enemy because, so far, most of them have been one shotted by a lucky exploding roll (which, once again, isn't that rare expecially when rolling d6s).


Yes but other than the exact die type as a target number (e.g., a 6 on a six sided die) and the TN of 24 when rolling a d12 vs a d10, a higher die type always has a better chance of getting a specific number.

For example, with a TN of 20:
a single d4 has a 0.10% chance,
a single d6 has a 0.39% chance,
a single d8 has a 0.98% chance,
a single d10 has a 1.00% chance, (close to d8 because 20 is a multiple of 10)
a single d12 has a 3.47% chance.
_________________
Lord Inar
Rocky Mountain Savages
SharkBytes
Best Internet page ever
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cryonic
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Inar wrote:
Cryonic wrote:
Doing a wound to an extra, or more than 3 wounds to a Wild Card doesn't mean they are Dead. In fact the worst that happens at 4+ wounds is that they are "Incapacitated" and will need to roll on the chart to see if they actually die or take a permanent injury.
I've had to get this issue through the heads of my players. So, capping acing really doesn't do much of anything. Plus you can't ace on objects. So it only applies to flesh and blood creatures anyways, heheh.


But say you start off unwounded and you get hit for either four wounds or seven wounds and you are rolling to draw down the number of wounds, there is a big difference between trying to get a single success and getting two raises on the roll.


Or, if you're taking that many wounds in a hit, save the benny for the incapacitation roll to reduce the chances of dying or permanent injury.

Quote:

Also, you can clearly ace against robot men or golems or zombies, none of which are living flesh and blood so I'm missing that last point.


can't ace against cars, bikes, doors, and other objects was all I was mentioning.
_________________
My Blog of Random Gaming: http://www.daemonstorm.com

Savage Worlds Tales: http://www.daemonstorm.com/category/Categories/Role-playing/Savage-Worlds
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Inar
Heroic


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1747
Location: Boulder, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cryonic wrote:
Lord Inar wrote:
Cryonic wrote:
Doing a wound to an extra, or more than 3 wounds to a Wild Card doesn't mean they are Dead. In fact the worst that happens at 4+ wounds is that they are "Incapacitated" and will need to roll on the chart to see if they actually die or take a permanent injury.
I've had to get this issue through the heads of my players. So, capping acing really doesn't do much of anything. Plus you can't ace on objects. So it only applies to flesh and blood creatures anyways, heheh.


But say you start off unwounded and you get hit for either four wounds or seven wounds and you are rolling to draw down the number of wounds, there is a big difference between trying to get a single success and getting two raises on the roll.


Or, if you're taking that many wounds in a hit, save the benny for the incapacitation roll to reduce the chances of dying or permanent injury.


Not if you can't afford to have that character go down, you don't. I think that approach got nerfed a bit in SWD since you can no longer "bounce back" to 3 wounds from an Incapacitation roll. If you make it to Incapacitation, you're out of the fight without outside help.
_________________
Lord Inar
Rocky Mountain Savages
SharkBytes
Best Internet page ever
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newForumNewName
Heroic


Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 1796
Location: Broomfield, CO

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Lord Inar. From a mechanics perspective, acing dice means that anything has a chance to kill anything in just one lucky hit. Even if that chance is entirely miniscule. Without acing dice, everything just becomes a grind. With minimally acing dice, the grind is less pronounced, but things still grind. It's why Savage Worlds is so appropriately named: anything can get a lucky shot and drop anything else. Some things border on impossible due to their extreme improbability, but they are still on the possible side (kill a Maze Dragon with a bundle of dynamite...). And I think that that's part of the fun of Savage Worlds.

If a group gets discouraged because the GMs dice are hot and theirs are not, then it highlights that some days you're just not lucky. Usually, it isn't the GMs dice that are hot when someone brings up the acing here on the boards. Usually (not always), it's the players dice that were hot and the GM that's upset about a short encounter with a Big Bad Boss and looking for a solution.

My advice is the same either way: characters die. If characters don't die, where is the tension? Where is the risk? Where is the conflict? Good characters, bad characters, evil characters, funny characters. PCs and NPCs. They all die. The trick is making it dramatic and interesting for the players. If you can do that whenever any character dies, PC or NPC, then you've gotten yourself into the Role Playing and story telling side of RPGs, in my opinion. And is there anything better than an engaging and enjoyable story?
_________________
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM

"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Drue
Seasoned


Joined: 10 Nov 2011
Posts: 104
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presuming this is not a solution in search of a problem, what if rather than capping the exploding dice, you limited extras to causing no more than four wounds in one shot?

You still have the same chance of a lucky strike from a goblin dagger taking out the knight, but it's not such a deep hole to climb out on one soak roll.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drue wrote:
Presuming this is not a solution in search of a problem, what if rather than capping the exploding dice, you limited extras to causing no more than four wounds in one shot?

You still have the same chance of a lucky strike from a goblin dagger taking out the knight, but it's not such a deep hole to climb out on one soak roll.


I think I'm failing to expresse the problem here:

The problem isn't extras dropping powerful characters/monsters (that's a perk of the system).

The problem is the fact that High Toughness entities seem to go from "not even shaken" to "multiple wounds hit" with no real solution of continuity.

Giving another example: a Str d10 character with a greatsword hitting a Toughness 10 target.
The average result is 5+6 which means the target is barely shaken.

Say one die Aces, and the second roll is a 6, we're looking at 22 damage which is 3 wounds in a single blow. And this occurrence isn't "incredibly rare", as it's 10% on each die.



I'll make an example here:

Last session I had my Hellfrost group face a deformed Storm Giant. The giant was approaching them from a crag next to a ruined fortress (they would initially fight him waist up).
While I don't believe in "scripting" combat, I had a number of special occurences prepared; I had wrote down the scenario rules for him picking up a log from the fortress' foundations, I had rules for him tearing down the floor making it uneven terrain to fight on, I had rules for him actually stepping on the floor, I had rules for players using a chain hung in the structure to restrain him.

Then one player aced a damage roll and we moved on.

And it's fine, it's bloody fine, the group had fun, but so far EVERY encounter of this kind has been solved like this, and every player who was incapacitated (bar once) was dropped like this.

I find Savage Worlds a system with more than decent strategical virtues, and I'm sort of looking to reduce the excessive impact lucky rolls can have on the outcome of a fight. For my tastes, lucks simply matters way too much to the point it becomes more important than choices and strategies.
The giant situation could be solved with ganging up, wild attacks, aimed blows, and all the scenario routes I wrote. If my players keep seeing rolling many dices until something explodes is the best possible strategies, our games will become a lot duller.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Persippe
Novice


Joined: 19 Jul 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Biella, Italy

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing in that campaign

Quote:
Last session I had my Hellfrost group face a deformed Storm Giant. The giant was approaching them from a crag next to a ruined fortress (they would initially fight him waist up).
While I don't believe in "scripting" combat, I had a number of special occurences prepared; I had wrote down the scenario rules for him picking up a log from the fortress' foundations, I had rules for him tearing down the floor making it uneven terrain to fight on, I had rules for him actually stepping on the floor, I had rules for players using a chain hung in the structure to restrain him.

Then one player aced a damage roll and we moved on.

And it's fine, it's bloody fine, the group had fun, but so far EVERY encounter of this kind has been solved like this, and every player who was incapacitated (bar once) was dropped like this.

I find Savage Worlds a system with more than decent strategical virtues, and I'm sort of looking to reduce the excessive impact lucky rolls can have on the outcome of a fight. For my tastes, lucks simply matters way too much to the point it becomes more important than choices and strategies.
The giant situation could be solved with ganging up, wild attacks, aimed blows, and all the scenario routes I wrote. If my players keep seeing rolling many dices until something explodes is the best possible strategies, our games will become a lot duller.


I can understand if my great and only DM was a bit upset on how we defeated his giant pet Twisted Evil , but:
1) It was a chaotic fight, plenty of extras and wild cards on the board
2) 5 players out of 6 focused on the giant
3) The giant already had 2 wounds when he was killed
4) he was killed with a called shot to the head, with a raise on the shooting roll, from a char who had first cast aim and smite spells (the same archer shooted twice or thrice in previous rounds, and spent 2 bennies to reroll, so he actually got his great shot after 5/6 shooting rolls)
5) I think (but I'm not sure) that he also used the bullseye card from adventure deck, effectively doubling his damage...


Anyway, I love exploding dice!! In SW I cannot say (as in another well know rpg) "ok, I'm a 8th level fighter with 85 HPs and armor class 22, surrounded by 10 bandits armed with bows, ahahah, CHAARGEEEE!!!!".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Persippe wrote:


I can understand if my great and only DM was a bit upset on how we defeated his giant pet Twisted Evil , but:
1) It was a chaotic fight, plenty of extras and wild cards on the board
2) 5 players out of 6 focused on the giant
3) The giant already had 2 wounds when he was killed
4) he was killed with a called shot to the head, with a raise on the shooting roll, from a char who had first cast aim and smite spells (the same archer shooted twice or thrice in previous rounds, and spent 2 bennies to reroll, so he actually got his great shot after 5/6 shooting rolls)
5) I think (but I'm not sure) that he also used the bullseye card from adventure deck, effectively doubling his damage...


Anyway, I love exploding dice!! In SW I cannot say (as in another well know rpg) "ok, I'm a 8th level fighter with 85 HPs and armor class 22, surrounded by 10 bandits armed with bows, ahahah, CHAARGEEEE!!!!".


i) I like that the giant died relatively fast as it allowed us to move on anyways ^_^

1) as every fight should be (or almost)
2) it's sort of the point here tho; the players who focused on the giant were highly ineffective, while the lone gunman who rolled high won. My entire point is that: the coordinated effort of the ganging up players who strategize over the approach to take should down the giant, not the usual arrow who rolls 3d6 because scoring raises on ranged attacks is pitifully easy and explodes a crapaton of damage. There's an arm long list of possible strategies that can be applied to a fight, but they pale in comparison of a good dice roll, and on top of that, certain characters are advantaged (sensibly) by the nature of the dice rolls. I'm not arguing the principle (anything can down anything), I'm arguing the implementation (archers/casters are massively advantaged since they roll several small dices vs the guy who rolls less big dice).
3) It was 1 as far as I can remember; point being, he suffered enough to die in one shot (there was also a card involved); the giant's example could be replaced with Morwin (downed in 1 shot by a single Bolt, during the same session)
4) Said character ONLY rolls headshots - which is part of my "problem", one doing the same exact thing every single roll having massively better results than people trying to actually explore the system. Almost every attempt of trying smart tricks, grapples, taunts and the like end up in miserable failures compared to the Headshot of the Roundô.
5) he did, the damage before the card was 21 (still enough to score 2 wounds, but once again, look at the 38 damage on Morwin).


On the last part, I absolutely love the unscaling HP element of SW, my objection can be resumed this way:

Point A) I'm somewhat concerned that the element of luck is too predominant on the game (the entire party failing to wound a giant, until someone lucks out, a character completely failing to melee efficiently a melee opponent until a caster lucks out and oneshots him). Repeating again, I feel it was a great game and a lot of fun, but I think it would have been even better if Hengist (who is in no way, at Fighting d10+1 and d8+d6+2 damage, a melee lightweight) had a more climatic and successfull fight with Morwin (expecially when you tried to actually use the system) or if the group had fun circling and distracting the giant with Smart tricks and letting the heavy hitters take him down instead of the umpteen "let me roll a d12+x vs a target number of 2/4, then roll a plethora of dice and explode something".
Point B) If the point on luck is true, then my second perplexity is that it strongly favours some "playstyles". Once again, our best "performer" is a guy that does the exact same thing every single turn ever since we started playing. Ranged characters are too powerful in SW (that's my opinion), and exploding damage strongly favours them.


As a last note, keep in mind that I'm suggesting letting each die explode once, not removing exploding dice. This lets a non-raised arrow still score 24 damage, in ideal conditions, and a sword swing from Hengist 30 damage. It does however devalue handful of d6s (think of the Lighting trappings on Casters! 4d6 bolts, good luck with that Razz).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wibbs
Veteran


Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 588
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit I am a little confused here. Have your players told you they are unhappy with the way the game went, or is this something that only you are concerned about?

Regarding point 4 - if this was the case, and there were buffing spells cast first and bennies burned to get the hit then I really don't see what the issue is as it sounds like your players are utilising a variety of tactics already.

OK, they might not be using smarts tricks, but have you been using them against the players to demonstrate the potency of getting a low smarts monster shaken with a raise?

With point 5, if you don't like randomness then I would strongly recommend you get rid of cards like this from the adventure deck, if you use the deck at all. Allowing the possibility of a player getting a card that doubles their damage is just asking for trouble if you are concerned with big monsters dropping too easily.

I also don't necessarily see an issue with Point B. What you are effectively saying is that while the melee characters kept the monster busy, the archer took his time, got buffed up, aimed and scored a head shot - sounds fine to me. If you want to prevent this kind of thing then you need to be more enemies with high manouvreability to rush the ranged character and get in their face.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manual work brings counsel!

The more I think about it, the more I feel tampering with exploding dice risks hampering the fun of SW (the grin the player's face is priceless).

I have devised an alternative solution that doesn't require touching the rules in any way, is absolutely optional and allows to bring "predictability" to the system only when it's absolutely needed. Tee hee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sidney
Novice


Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wibbs wrote:
I have to admit I am a little confused here. Have your players told you they are unhappy with the way the game went, or is this something that only you are concerned about?


It's my perception that a DM should be proactive on this stuff. I'm starting to see players say "I should have just attacked" after attempting something creative. I want to counter that ASAP.

Quote:
Regarding point 4 - if this was the case, and there were buffing spells cast first and bennies burned to get the hit then I really don't see what the issue is as it sounds like your players are utilising a variety of tactics already.


Buffing themselves isn't really a "strategy" in my opinion (expecially under Hellfrost rules).
Incidentally, the archer character who needed a 2 (cough) to hit the giant had a massively lessened impact when he did a multiaction to buff up compared to the melee character (who "bumped" the target number from 4 to 6). This would open up a discussion about the "advantages" of ranged characters, which are massive in SW - but mostly justified, we moved away from swords for a reason.

Quote:
OK, they might not be using smarts tricks, but have you been using them against the players to demonstrate the potency of getting a low smarts monster shaken with a raise?


Players are more than aware of it, I simply don't think he lasted enough to even allow players to try something fancy Very Happy .

Quote:
With point 5, if you don't like randomness then I would strongly recommend you get rid of cards like this from the adventure deck, if you use the deck at all. Allowing the possibility of a player getting a card that doubles their damage is just asking for trouble if you are concerned with big monsters dropping too easily.


Mmh, I like cards. I don't really mind randomness when it affects *me*, I just want to make sure the game's fair to all players and they don't feel someone's playing something massively more performing then them. The second concern for me is to reward smart play over mechanical exploits. But that's something I have to work around, even against the potential flaws of the system.
Once again on the archer guy, he's a bloody killing machine, but shutting him down would be effectively easy if I wanted - he can't shoot bows in melee, I just have to get monsters to charge him. But why should I play against a player and prevent him to play as he likes just because the system is too generous with his playstyle? It's not the right solution to me.


Quote:
I also don't necessarily see an issue with Point B. What you are effectively saying is that while the melee characters kept the monster busy, the archer took his time, got buffed up, aimed and scored a head shot - sounds fine to me. If you want to prevent this kind of thing then you need to be more enemies with high manouvreability to rush the ranged character and get in their face.


See the point above. Anyways, the game was fun and I doubt any player went home with sour feelings. I'm just being proactive. I DON'T want to start playing against the most performing character, I just need to make sure smart play is rewarded, and that it's felt like it's more important than sheer luck - expecially since some characters can afford to rely on luck more than others.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zadmar
Legendary


Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 2240
Location: Munich

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sidney wrote:
And it's fine, it's bloody fine, the group had fun, but so far EVERY encounter of this kind has been solved like this, and every player who was incapacitated (bar once) was dropped like this.

You could try introducing a new edge, perhaps something like:

Quote:
Hard to Stop
Requirements
: Novice, Hard to Kill

Bruised, beaten and battered, you just keep on fighting!

When you are damaged for more than one wound, you may spend a benny and make a Vigor roll. Donít count the wound modifiers you're about to suffer when making this roll.

A success reduces the damage to one wound and makes you Shaken. If the damage would normally have incapacitated you, you must also roll on the Injury Table. This Injury goes away when all wounds are healed.

A raise reduces the damage to one wound, but doesn't cause you to become Shaken (although it won't remove an existing Shaken condition). If the damage would normally have incapacitated you, you must also roll on the Injury Table. This Injury goes in 24 hours, or when all wounds are healed.

You cannot Soak the wound received from using this edge.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum