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[DLN] What clues in HOE tell us the background of DLN
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: [DLN] What clues in HOE tell us the background of DLN Reply with quote

As the title says what back ground material in Hell on Earth tells us about the time of Dead Lands Noir?

To start as some one said in another thread today (new member Bluegrass in his first post) brought up some thought no one else has has noticed

Bluegrass wrote:
... One of the things that I'm really curious about is what kind - if any - interplay there will be between DL:N and Classics Hell On Earth. For example: Will the Noir Campanion give us more background on the war between Eliot Ness and (according to The Last Crusaders) a Reckenor-backed Al Capone? The same book mentions that Sgt. Alvin York taught at the Confederate Syker Academy in 1924.... does this mean that Arcane Background: Psionics will be available in Deadlands: Noir?

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cloudshaper2k
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, we know from Iron Oasis that Hellstromme had returned to the City of Gloom in 1917. Also that during the 20's is when the Junkyard residents dug the second sublevel.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Templar saints in Last Crusaders actually give us most of our details about the world at that time.
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Edgeworth
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloudshaper2k wrote:
Well, we know from Iron Oasis that Hellstromme had returned to the City of Gloom in 1917. Also that during the 20's is when the Junkyard residents dug the second sublevel.


I was reading Jo's Journal from the Wasted West just yesterday and read that Hellstromme returned as an Automaton in 191X ( I could've swore it was 1914, but I'm good with 1917). Noir could tell in detail how the world accepted that and what part did the group of good-hearted fellows, whose identity is a mystery, play in it.

One thing I'm curious of is what's what in the City of Lost Angels.

SPOILERS for the The Flood plot point and Hell on Earth background!

In the Flood, Lost Angels gets flooded. However, in the Jo's Journal of Wasted West companion book, it doesn't mention the city's current state. This is curious since it states that the city gets destroyed and flooded in an attempt to take out Famine. I doubt that killing off one horseman's stead is going to get retconned.

So I'm interested in The Celestial City's condition in the time between 1880 and 2081. Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edgeworth wrote:
Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.

Then you don't listen to the things said by the Deadlands Brand Manager. Twisted Evil
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Edgeworth
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Edgeworth wrote:
Of course, one possible explanation is that since HoE is the worst possible future of the Weird West, the darkest timeline if you will, it cannot happen on the same timeline as the Flood's plot points.

Then you don't listen to the things said by the Deadlands Brand Manager. Twisted Evil


I feel like I've missed some new-ish comments. I was skimming through my old Hoe books last weekend and in some book (my bet's on The Wasted West) it said that Hell on Earth is the worst possible future for the Weird West. Has this changed?
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Thunderforge
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that ValhallaGH is referring to Cutter's comments here and here (see response to question 4), which suggest that the worst possible future (Hell on Earth) was still going to happen even if the heroes seemed to have prevented it (e.g. in Devil's Tower) and that there was "one timeline".

With this interpretation, Noir is part of the (official) Deadlands timeline where the heroes didn't win (due to the Reckoners' intervention), which will eventually result in the Hell on Earth timeline. So it's not only the worst possible future, but also the possible future that is 100% going to happen. And yes, that would also mean that all the stuff they say about the heroes of Deadlands being able to avert Hell on Earth isn't true Sad.

That's my (probably fallible) interpretation anyway and it still doesn't explain why Lost Angels would be flooded in Deadlands, back around in Noir, and then (presumably) gone again in Hell on Earth, which was your original point.
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Last edited by Thunderforge on Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe they need to hire the comic writers who constantly retcon overlapping and inconsistant history



And who else thinks the 1932 ford roadster and weird science is a win win
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Cutter XXIII
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderforge wrote:
With this interpretation, Noir is part of the (official) Deadlands timeline where the heroes didn't win (due to the Reckoners' intervention), which will eventually result in the Hell on Earth timeline. So it's not only the worst possible future, but also the possible future that is 100% going to happen. And yes, that would also mean that all the stuff they say about the heroes of Deadlands being able to avert Hell on Earth isn't true Sad

Of course heroes can avert Hell on Earth. Anything can happen in your game, and all our stories allow for that possibility.

Can your heroes do anything to stop Hell on Earth (the book) from being published? Probably not. Wink So in the "official" timeline, Hell on Earth happens.

That's really all I meant.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderforge wrote:
...and it still doesn't explain why Lost Angels would be flooded in Deadlands, back around in Noir, and then (presumably) gone again in Hell on Earth, which was your original point.


The world's full of cities that have been destroyed or nearly so and then rebuilt. About 80% of San Francisco was destroyed when it had a population over 12 times what Lost Angels had, and it was rebuilt in less than 10 years.

At that rate, we could easily destroy Lost Angels 10 more times before HOE occurs. Wink
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they have to rebuild Hollywood


mix Deadlands Noir and the golden age of Hollywood

Kind of like the LA Noir Films mixed with Universal Monsters
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Thunderforge
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Clint and Cutter for clearing that up!

By the way, the new Hell on Earth Reloaded clearly says that Lost Angels was rebuilt:
Quote:
Eventually, a party of unnamed heroes figured out how to put [Grimm] down and did so—by levelling Lost Angels. The church stayed flat for a while, and the nearby town of Perdition rose on the peaks overlooking the ruins. That lasted a while, then a new “City of Lost Angels” rose closer inland. The remaining congregation built black obsidian walls around the inner city and kept mostly to themselves for the next two centuries.

So there you go. Rebuilt just in time for Noir!
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And maybe a different set of investors got the movie town going and it was named

Hellywood
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catalac
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VonDan wrote:
And maybe a different set of investors got the movie town going and it was named

Hellywood

god save us but that might just be the type of name they'd use. (lost angels, shan fran, and hellywood what a picture.)
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

catalac wrote:
VonDan wrote:
And maybe a different set of investors got the movie town going and it was named

Hellywood

god save us but that might just be the type of name they'd use. (lost angels, shan fran, and hellywood what a picture.)


Since in this world Helstorm is going to be the guy who invents film who will they name the film studio and film city after
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Clint
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunderforge wrote:
Thanks Clint and Cutter for clearing that up!

By the way, the new Hell on Earth Reloaded clearly says that Lost Angels was rebuilt:
Quote:
Eventually, a party of unnamed heroes figured out how to put [Grimm] down and did so—by levelling Lost Angels. The church stayed flat for a while, and the nearby town of Perdition rose on the peaks overlooking the ruins. That lasted a while, then a new “City of Lost Angels” rose closer inland. The remaining congregation built black obsidian walls around the inner city and kept mostly to themselves for the next two centuries.

So there you go. Rebuilt just in time for Noir!


Yes, oddly enough, I was aware of that. Wink
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catalac
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VonDan wrote:
catalac wrote:
VonDan wrote:
And maybe a different set of investors got the movie town going and it was named

Hellywood

god save us but that might just be the type of name they'd use. (lost angels, shan fran, and hellywood what a picture.)


Since in this world Helstorm is going to be the guy who invents film who will they name the film studio and film city after

point
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Bluegrass
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: The Great War Reply with quote

I'm curious to see how the First World War plays out in the Deadlands 'verse. For instance:

The Reckoners did everything they could to drag out the American Civil War. Did they have their hands in the First World War? Did they cause it to start earlier or drag on longer than it did in our reality?

From Classic HoE, we know that the Confederate States entered the war on the side of the Allied Powers -- and both HoE Reloaded and the Deadlands: Noir Kickstarter says that when pushed came to shove, the US and CS would join forces against a common enemy. Was this the case with the First World War, or did the United States join the Central Powers?
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

catalac wrote:
VonDan wrote:
catalac wrote:
VonDan wrote:
And maybe a different set of investors got the movie town going and it was named

Hellywood

god save us but that might just be the type of name they'd use. (lost angels, shan fran, and hellywood what a picture.)


Since in this world Helstorm is going to be the guy who invents film who will they name the film studio and film city after

point


And in this world "Gone with the Wind" will feature a cast of thousands...

of Zombies
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The Great War Reply with quote

Bluegrass wrote:
I'm curious to see how the First World War plays out in the Deadlands 'verse.

Brainburners (6002) page 7. The USA and CSA both joined up in 1917, against the Germans.

No comments about them dragging it out, but that war was horrible enough that it didn't need supernatural increases in fear. (It probably had a few, but the return on investment was piddly - humans made that fight terrifying enough.)
The Reckoners probably tried to extend it, but there is only so much they could do.
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