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Locke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Springville, UT
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: [NE/SPC] Odd Character Creation Advice |
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One of the players in my upcoming NE game has a fairly unique character concept that I'm trying my best to work with, but being a novice to SW, I'm not quite sure the best way to set things up. The core concept of the character is that he's actually a dragon who survived until modern times by hiding in human guise. The player wants to have access to some level of the dragon's power (fire control, fire immunity, etc.) even while in human form. Also, the dragon has been without a hoard of gold for quite a while, so he's not as strong as a full dragon would be.
The best way I could think of to do this was to have the player use Animal Control with the Shapechange and Unique modifiers, giving it the trapping of "returning to natural form" when he decides to change into a dragon. The other powers like fire control and immunity would be bought with the player's remaining PP. Anyone have suggestions for a better way to do this?
Another hurdle we're running into is that the player wants to improve the dragon's capabilities incrementally. For the character's dragon form, he's essentially a drake (from the SWD bestiary) with the dragon's flight tacked on. Rather than just putting another 3 PP into the Animal Control power--to jump from the Large drake to the Huge dragon--the player wants to improve the character's dragon-form Strength or his breath weapon or his Vigor. And honestly, I have no idea how I'm going to do this. The one option I gave him--using PP from advances to buy those powers and have them apply to both forms--dissuaded him from that option. I'm just at my wit's end with this one.
Any advice you could give would be great. Thanks. 
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Zadmar
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 1377
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest I'm not sure if can even shapechange into a drake by the rules - as GM you could allow it, but it seems pretty powerful to me (although his Large size should compensate somewhat, as he'd suffer -2 to his attack rolls against most opponents, while they'd gain +2 to their attacks against him).
Personally I'd probably tell him to pick another animal (perhaps bear or lion), describe it as looking like a dragon, and then add powers normally for Flight, Armour, Fear, Ranged Attack, etc. If he doesn't want access to any of his draconic powers while in human form, I would allow him to take the Gimmick hindrance and tie it to his shapechanging.
He could increase his attributes with Super Attribute, but that increases his attributes, not those of his other form. So for example if he normally had Strength d6, and his Drake form had Strength d12+6, if he wanted to increase his Strength to d12+7 he'd have to take Super Attribute (Strength) ten times. See this thread for a good explanation from Clint.
However he could take the Growth power to increase his Strength (and Toughness) indirectly. You could also perhaps allow him to merge the activation for Growth and shapechanging. |
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TheLoremaster
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1912
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: [NE/SPC] Odd Character Creation Advice |
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| Locke wrote: | | The core concept of the character is that he's actually a dragon who survived until modern times by hiding in human guise. The player wants to have access to some level of the dragon's power (fire control, fire immunity, etc.) even while in human form. Also, the dragon has been without a hoard of gold for quite a while, so he's not as strong as a full dragon would be. |
Sounds like a perfect candidate for Gimmick. The only thing to determine is what he needs to do in order to change forms. Perhaps there's some mystical phrase he needs to say, or perhaps he's cursed so he can only change forms at night, maybe it's time limited, or similar As he levels up, he "unlocks" more of his true potential (by buying more Power Points). The balancing factor is that he has to "split" his level ups between the two forms.
Hope that helps!
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Locke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Springville, UT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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The Gimmick idea has me intrigued, as well as the notion of choosing a smaller animal and then superpowering it via the Animal Control power. How would you work it out so that the character can have some powers while in human form, though? Making a "normal Novice character" makes me think that the alternate form isn't supposed to be super-powered, since it wouldn't be much of a hindrance to have powers in both forms.
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Zadmar
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Location: Munich
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Locke wrote: | | How would you work it out so that the character can have some powers while in human form, though? |
Switchable (from the Super Powers Companion). |
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TheLoremaster
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Locke wrote: | | Making a "normal Novice character" makes me think that the alternate form isn't supposed to be super-powered, since it wouldn't be much of a hindrance to have powers in both forms. |
I've always taken it as "normal" in the sense of "regular character" rather than "character without super powers".
Look at The Hulk as an example. When he's the Hulk, he's got high Toughness, Super Strength, can "fly" (Leap), but is pretty dumb. When he's Banner, he's Super, Super, SUPER Smart, with all sorts of Knowledge Skills, but not so strong.
There's nothing that says only one of the forms gets Super Powers.
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Snate56
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Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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Location: Monroe, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Too bad you don't have Sundered Skies (a Great setting, by the way), It has a race called Draken who have a set of Edges all their own, and can actually advance into the form of a dragon after many adventures.
SteveN
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Zadmar
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 1377
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Snate56 wrote: | | Too bad you don't have Sundered Skies (a Great setting, by the way), It has a race called Draken who have a set of Edges all their own, and can actually advance into the form of a dragon after many adventures. |
He should be able to reproduce the same abilities in NE easily enough, even as a starting character - eg Melee Attack instead of Dragon Might, Armor instead of Dragon Hide, Extra Limbs instead of Dragon Tail, Flight instead of Dragon Wings, Ranged Attack instead of Dragon Breath, Fear instead of Dragon Fear, etc.
NE is flexible enough to do what he wants, but it sounds like the player wants the abilities without having to spend PP. |
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Sitting Duck
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Another possibility is to create a minor version of Gimmick where no more than half of your powers are available without employing the Gimmick.
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Locke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Springville, UT
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Zadmar wrote: | | NE is flexible enough to do what he wants, but it sounds like the player wants the abilities without having to spend PP. |
I think it's more that my player has a certain vision of how powerful dragons should be and doesn't want to accept the weakened version that he would get from building it with PP. These have been great suggestions, though, and I think I'm going to try building this character on my own to see what he might think is missing.
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TheLoremaster
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Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1912
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Locke wrote: | | Zadmar wrote: | | NE is flexible enough to do what he wants, but it sounds like the player wants the abilities without having to spend PP. |
I think it's more that my player has a certain vision of how powerful dragons should be and doesn't want to accept the weakened version that he would get from building it with PP. |
At that point, it becomes a "player expectation" issue, and less of a rules issue. We've all had our share of players who want to be "awesome" right out of the gate, but all players should recognize that they can grow into a role, rather than getting it all right away.
Yeah, a dragon in human form is an AWESOME idea, and I would totally allow it. You just don't get to be Tiamat right away; you gotta earn it.
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Locke
Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Springville, UT
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | | Yeah, a dragon in human form is an AWESOME idea, and I would totally allow it. You just don't get to be Tiamat right away; you gotta earn it. |
Maybe I need to talk to him about it some more, especially with the option of having super powers as a non-dragon. Part of his whole concept is that this dragon has become weaker over the years because he doesn't have a hoard of gold (The player decided that the reason dragons keep treasure troves around is that gold keeps them powerful, for some reason. ), so it might do me some good if I remind him of that idea.
Edit: One thing that I just thought of was whether his dragon form would need to have the Animal Control (Shapechange, Unique) power on it. I would think so, since his Gimmick is what gives him access to that particular power (changing into a dragon), but now I'm wondering if I'm looking at it wrong. Would using his Gimmick just turn him into a dragon, and I don't have to worry about the Shapechange?
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Zadmar
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Location: Munich
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Locke wrote: | | One thing that I just thought of was whether his dragon form would need to have the Animal Control (Shapechange, Unique) power on it. I would think so, since his Gimmick is what gives him access to that particular power (changing into a dragon), but now I'm wondering if I'm looking at it wrong. Would using his Gimmick just turn him into a dragon, and I don't have to worry about the Shapechange? |
That's up to the player. Shapechanger offers some nice benefits (boosted attributes, special abilities, etc) but also some drawbacks - you can't normally talk (unless you're some species of bird or other creature that can produce the necessary sounds), you can't usually manipulate objects (unless you're an ape, etc), you can't use most equipment (although perhaps a horse could wear barding if someone else put it on them), and so on.
If he wants to play a talking dragon that can use its forefeet like hands and wear barding, then Shapechanger might not be right option - although I'd probably let him talk in dragon (animal) form if he took the Speak Language power.
It might make it easier for the player if he thinks of the powers as "dragon abilities" rather than "superpowers". Here's how I might create such a dragon:
4: Animal Control (Shapechanger, Unique)
2: Energy Control: fire
2: Attack, Melee
4: Extra Limbs (tail)
2: Ageless (with Very Old)
1: Growth (with Monster)
1: Fear (with Scary)
2: Speak Language
2: Flight
Gimmick: The character traces some draconic symbols in the air and transforms into dragon form - this is also treated as the action required to activate Shapechanger (i.e., he's either in dragon form with all of his powers, or in human form with no powers).
Shapechanger is based on the stats of a bear, but also benefits from the above powers. So the dragon form looks like this:
Dragon form
Attributes: Agility d6, Strength d12+5, Vigor d12
Pace: 8; Toughness: 11; Charisma: -4
Special Abilities
• Ancient: +2 to most Common Knowledge rolls.
• Tongues: He can speak any language.
• Size +3: He's small for a dragon, but still the size of a polar bear.
• Scary: Everyone within 12" who sees him must make a Guts check.
• Claws: Str+2d6 (i.e., d12+5+2d6!) and counts as a Heavy Weapon.
• Pin: On a raise, he pins his foe. Victim need a raise on an opposed Strength roll to escape.
• Powerful wings: He can fly at his normal Pace, with a climb of half his Pace.
• Tail lash: Can make an extra attack with no MAP, inflicts Str+d6 damage (Heavy Weapon).
• Knockback: A successful attack causes victims to fly back d4", or 2d4" on a raise.
• Fiery Breath: Make a Shooting roll, uses a MBT, inflicts 2d6 damage (Heavy Weapon).
• Control flames: Make a Smarts roll to extinguish flames or negate fire damage within a MBT.
Although bears can't manipulate objects, "Extra Limbs" gives a prehensile limb. A prehensile tail doesn't fit dragon form very well, but prehensile feet do, so you could keep the mechanics of having one prehensile limb: he can manipulate objects with his forefeet as if he had the One Arm hindrance (i.e., fine manipulation that requires both forefeet is at -4). Or you could just say he can manipulate items normally, as compensation for the fact that he's got a tail instead of an extra leg (and therefore his tail lash doesn't benefit from the bear's claws).
He doesn't really have enough PP for a decent Ranged Attack, and his stats make him better for melee anyway, so I've used Energy Control instead. That also covers the "fire control" you mentioned. |
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Locke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Springville, UT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the thorough build, Zadmar. I did something similar to that but used the lion from SWD as the base animal. And thankfully, I was able to talk the player into it. He was starting to guess that I was worried about game balance when we were trying to work out the dragon form's advancement, so he was pretty easy to bring around to this solution.
Which is good, because even using the weakened dragonish drake he had worked out, I was handing the guy a gigantic hammer. And as the saying goes, to the man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Thanks again for all of the advice, everyone. This has been a most enlightening discusion.
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