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Ultimate2099
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Joined: 29 Mar 2010
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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: [NE] Necessary Evil Advice |
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My Deadlands campaign is going to be ending tonight. Starting next session, I'll be running Necessary Evil. I've decided to run the Plot Points campaign and side quests in order to save myself some work. Since I'll only have 4 players I've decided to use some optional rules from Super Powers Companion; including giving them more Power Points (14 to start plus 7 per Power Points Edge taken.)
Mostly I was wondering if anyone had run or played in the actual Necessary Evil Plot Point Campaign and what advice they might have for me? Heck even if you didn't do the story from the book I'd appreciate your imput. |
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UmbraLux
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: [NE] Necessary Evil Advice |
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| Ultimate2099 wrote: | | Mostly I was wondering if anyone had run or played in the actual Necessary Evil Plot Point Campaign and what advice they might have for me? Heck even if you didn't do the story from the book I'd appreciate your imput. |
Most important note - it's a heavy handed railroad as written. Taking orders to "go do X" can get old fast...if you make that the focus of your game. You have a couple options - get players to buy in to the script, toss the script when it no longer fits, or refocus to another aspect of play. There's an actual play thread that shows one group doing an excellent job of refocusing.
Other issues to watch - heavy weapons & heavy armor (remember who has what and how NPCs switch from one to another) and money / resources (need to have clear reasons why your villains shouldn't simply rob or kill to get what they want). |
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Thunderforge
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Heavy handed railroad as written? I wouldn't say that. Yes, the VMAP system is a bit more direct than the "let's go here, what do we find?" nature of 50 Fathoms, but played right, it doesn't have to be (transparently) railroading.
I use it as not only direct orders from Doctor Destruction, but also a general bulletin of developing areas of interest, kind of like a police scanner (e.g. Local authorities have taken a great deal of interest in the warehouse near the docks. Requesting an available Omega team to travel there). You could also have it reflect the PCs too (the PC with the Dependent hindrance gets a text message from their brother: "V'sori drones nearby. I think they're looking for ma after what she did last week...". Will he persuade the group to help save her instead of do something more apparently beneficial to all of them?).
You can also give the illusion of choice in a lot of locations. Ask them where do you want to go, and have three adventures in mind ahead of time, fitting one of them into whichever location they decide.
Again, it's a bit more direct than some other Plot Point Campaigns, but it doesn't have to be a heavy handed railroad game at all if you don't make it. |
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UmbraLux
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunderforge wrote: | | Heavy handed railroad as written? |
Yes. Using an NPC to give orders to PCs is "heavy handed" in my book. | Quote: | | I wouldn't say that. Yes, the VMAP system is a bit more direct than the "let's go here, what do we find?" nature of 50 Fathoms, but played right, it doesn't have to be (transparently) railroading. |
As I also mentioned, there are ways to reduce or modify the railroading.
| Quote: | | You can also give the illusion of choice... |
You can but illusions tend to lack substance. |
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Thunderforge
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| UmbraLux wrote: | | Yes. Using an NPC to give orders to PCs is "heavy handed" in my book. |
Isn't an NPC telling the PCs what to do the definition of a plot hook? Yes, Doctor Destruction is (as written) threatening their lives as an alternative, which can be a bit forceful. I suppose it depends on the players. Mine saw it as a challenge (and began subtly planning to overthrow him once they were reasonably sure they could defeat the V'sori, and I encouraged their planning). Other players might react negatively. Besides, I figure that Doctor Destruction...cough...can't be heartless all the time...cough... and won't order Omega with an iron fist all the time. |
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UmbraLux
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunderforge wrote: | | Isn't an NPC telling the PCs what to do the definition of a plot hook? |
Definition, no. One of many possible types of hooks, yes.
| Quote: | | Yes, Doctor Destruction is (as written) threatening their lives as an alternative, which can be a bit forceful. I suppose it depends on the players. Mine saw it as a challenge (and began subtly planning to overthrow him once they were reasonably sure they could defeat the V'sori, and I encouraged their planning). Other players might react negatively. Besides, I figure that Doctor Destruction...cough...can't be heartless all the time...cough... and won't order Omega with an iron fist all the time. |
And that sounds like a decent way of refocusing your plot.
Focusing on this may be better in a different thread - I'd rather not derail the OP's request for advice.
-----
In the interest of moving back to advice, if you have the SPC, you may consider giving out headquarters upgrades as rewards. Whether it's something they create, find, steal, or are given depends on what fits in the story. An HQ can also be a method of pulling the group together. |
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Zadmar
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Location: Munich
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I like the railroading to some degree, as it provides a solid reason for a group of villains to work together instead of killing each other...the glue that holds the party together. However I've tended to keep Dr Destruction out of the side missions - he contacts the players for the plot point episodes, but the other missions are usually the result of a player contact tipping them off. Of course it helps that my PCs are generally pretty greedy and/or vengeful, and happy to fight against the V'sori for their own reasons.
I've also found that the NE adventure generator works really well in combination with Mythic's GM Emulator (used as a GM tool rather than substitute), as that tends to produce some really freeform adventures - it helps balance out the railroading of some of the other missions. |
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Jeff Carlsen
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Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 175
Location: Burien, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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The plot point campaign tends to want the players to stop being villians and become heroes. Not just out of necessity, but to actually have a change of heart. The game certainly doesn't go out of its way to provide opportunities for villainy, so you and your players will want to put some extra thought into how to accomplish that.
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HaraldKlak
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Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Carlsen wrote: | | The plot point campaign tends to want the players to stop being villians and become heroes. Not just out of necessity, but to actually have a change of heart. The game certainly doesn't go out of its way to provide opportunities for villainy, so you and your players will want to put some extra thought into how to accomplish that. |
That is definately what the campaign sets out to do, but I think it is important to consider if it both feasible and a good thing. In the two groups, I have run NE for, the players was generally psyched about getting to play supervillains, trying to play characters that does not fit the type of heroes characters in RPG most often have to be. At first I tried giving them amble opportunities to take the high road, but as I saw the they really wasn't interested in playing soon-to-be-heroes, I ignored the notion that the game wants to take them into that destiny. |
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Lord Lance
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Posts: 1406
Location: Vicenza, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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However, you can modify the base script, if you feel that your players want more "freedom" or wanna follow different ways, but you still get a great manual, with tons of ideas for your super PCs, that you can easily re-use in following campaigns (I use the whole power system in a modern/fantasy/cospiracy setting).
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Sitting Duck
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Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 4556
Location: Podunk Junction, State of Confusion
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Jeff Carlsen wrote: | | The plot point campaign tends to want the players to stop being villians and become heroes. Not just out of necessity, but to actually have a change of heart. The game certainly doesn't go out of its way to provide opportunities for villainy, so you and your players will want to put some extra thought into how to accomplish that. |
Check out Gospog's NE campaign (which can be found further below). Not only are they being very villainous, but they also rarely interact with Dr. D. They get their missions mostly because of the fact that they have the least secret secret base since Deep 13.
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jdpearson
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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My players have not felt overly railroaded with NE thus far. Their characters buy into Dr. D's philosophy of "if I can't have it, they sure can't" attitude. The characters are truly evil though and my players have loved that. It's created some character tension. There are a couple that are hesitant to be on the same mission together. One character was just psycho evil and did a couple of things to interfere with Dr. D's plans. He's no longer around....
Playing villains has been fun for us. They realize that there is some attempt to make them have a change of heart, but don't seem to mind since they still get to rob, steal, and rebel against the current administration (the aliens).
A lot of this, however, has to do with our group as role players. We handwave a lot and just have fun. We also realize that the idea of a "Patron" is a good plot device and allows us to get together to play without too much preparation.
We are really rushing through the campaign. I think by the time it's over we may have played 1-3 of the supporting scenarios. We get so little time to play and have so many games that we aren't really going to flesh out this world much.
However, if I did have some advice it would be to really flesh it out and take advantage of the setting. There's so much you could do and explore and you could easily build on any of the themes presented (villains, redemption, etc.). |
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DeMyztikX
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Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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When my group did the plot point I really felt it didn't press the villains to heroes issue well enough. The point of the game is they're villains but because of outside circumstances their actions must be good, to continue being evil. As the GM I wished I would have impressed better the idea of the conflict here.
Also, when they recruited more people to the cause I allowed them a "call in" to bring that person into a mission (partially because we only had 3 players). Toss in some extra people to recruit and make them pick to save them, rob someone or even strike against a v'sori target every now and then. So either boost evil cred and get gear/money, get more allies or get a more favorable fight in the next mission. |
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Snate56
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Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 3638
Location: Monroe, Washington
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I don't quite follow. Were the villians still evil with the appearence of being good, or actually torn between one way or the other?
Clint wrote an article a ways back that discussed what should happen when the viilians start getting a "good" reputation; the neighborhood starts paying them back in little ways. Perhaps they get a bunch of free pizzas delivered, or when that V'sori is standing over you grinning a brick comes out of nowhere and smacks him in the forehead, or you find a box of fresh baked cookies and a thank you note.
SteveN
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Clint
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Snate56 wrote: | | Clint wrote an article a ways back... |
If anyone is interested...
A GM’s Guide to the V’sori, Omega, and Dr. Destruction
The following represents some spoilers to the story; highlight to read...
| Quote: | What follows are some hints and suggestions for handling certain aspects of Necessary Evil.
The V’sori
There are two main things to remember when playing the V’sori. First, they are smart. They studied Earth, and they got an A in the class. Second, they don’t play by the “rules.” In fact, in a way this is the most alien thing about them to humanity.
Take the somewhat common question, “Didn’t any villains join the V’sori side?” The answer is, “They tried.” The V’sori know that traitors are just as willing to betray you. They rip any useful knowledge from the traitor’s mind, and then shoot him in the head. If they can’t get in the mind, they shoot him in the head. If it doesn’t feel right, they’ll shoot him in the head. Then the body goes off to the scientists for dissection. Occasionally, they may not shoot him in the head but use an equally incapacitating method such as an induced coma.
Omega
Here is the ultimate secret behind Omega. Omega does not succeed because it is made up of supervillains. It succeeds because it is organized.
Occasionally, this may be something you need to reinforce so the players, if not the characters, understand. Nearly every time their cell is performing a mission, other cells are performing simultaneous missions. If there is no mission, they may just tear things up to cause a diversion. You might even consider giving your cell a diversion mission, but I’d make it rare as the players should generally feel as if their actions are the key ones, not just supplemental to what the NPCs are doing.
Even without the diversions, Omega has resources and connections that make life for a villain tremendously easier than going it alone. Should the characters perhaps decide they don’t need Omega or Dr. Destruction’s help, feel free to double or triple the resistance they start running into. Don’t forget to disable the Commlinks and V-Map as well. Unless of course, that’s the kind of game you want to run.
Dr. Destruction
Dr. Destruction is at once the most useful and toughest tool for a GM to use. It’s easy to play him solely as an over-the-top mastermind villain, but the points made about the V’sori apply to him as well. He’s smart… and he cheats. It should be clear that he will do what is necessary to stop the V’sori, but he also understands the nature of the tools he is using very well. Except in special circumstances, Dr. Destruction should know 95% of every villain’s history and background. As the V’sori studied Earth, so he has extensive files on every villain.
Here’s something that didn’t make the book. Just because the villains aren’t using them, doesn’t mean the Commlinks aren’t transmitting. Everything around every Commlink is constantly being recorded by Destruction’s computer. He gets reports on events and discussions daily and can be interrupted in the case of emergency.
One thing Dr. Destruction will do if possible is “soften” the villains. He has to keep in mind what will happen when the V’sori are beaten. Some of the villains are simply unredeemable (and this is a fine and viable way to play a campaign), and he won’t try to turn them unless they show an attempt themselves. However, those villains get the most dangerous, possibly even suicidal, missions. And usually ones that avoid innocents.
If there is a chance though, he will facilitate (and sometimes manipulate) things based on what he knows of the villain’s psychology. The two main things that he typically uses (again it can vary with the individual) are rewards and fans.
Dr. Destruction rewards villains who act heroic; he just calls it “good PR” or “putting someone in our debt,” but when they do it, they will get a benefit. He probably won’t specifically link the benefit to the “good” act but to the mission as a whole. Still, like Pavlov’s dogs, he hopes they will come to link the behavior to the reward.
Fans. I love fans. They can mess with a villain’s mind like nothing else. First off, let me just say, it doesn’t matter how callous or heartless the villain is, they will get fans. Heck, the Heartless ones are some of the most fun to do it to. It weirds them out to get some crayon drawn picture of themselves seen as a hero to some small child, or a thank you letter from some sweet old lady with a box of cookies just like their grandmother made (chocolate chip with raisin).
The trick to fans is to think like someone who only sees one part of a situation. For instance, consider a kid who lived in the burning building. She doesn’t see the villain just standing around watching it burn for a while; she sees the “hero” who disintegrated the top of a hydrant to get water to put out the fire. Or the old lady who lived down the hall and only sees the water controller putting out the flames, not when he was standing around smoking a cigarette earlier.
In fact, I would even say the best thing is when they are undeserving because it puts the pressure on them to be deserving. (And even if they don’t do it, it leads to good roleplaying.)
So Dr. Destruction will make sure that some letters and packages will make it into the hands of the villains. This is almost never directly, but maybe by making sure through intermediaries that the fans get a contact in the underground or something that has a contact to the PC’s.
And while speaking of fans, another useful device is the love interest. It’s hard to be evil when you care what someone else thinks about you. Dr. D isn’t above playing matchmaker, setting the cell up with missions that work with a group of the Underground, led by or containing someone who may fit a certain villain’s profile.
The final thing about Dr. D is that he knows how to give people what they want. If characters want respect, he’ll play up the “I need a team I can trust to get this done” angle. If someone wants a “cure” to their powers, he’ll send them on a mission that may lead to that. Heck, even the tough “join me or die” is pretty much an act so that later his “appreciation” seems like it was genuinely earned.
You’ll know you are playing Dr. Destruction right if the characters want to work for him. In essence, he should come across as this kind of hard-ass father figure, but you secretly know you’re his favorite child.
That’s where you get the real impact at the end of the story. |
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SlasherEpoch
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think NE, more than most campaigns, is an important one to say "yes, and" to anything the villains do. It's largely a setting about choices and consequences; when they say "I light the old man on fire!" it should actually happen in NE.
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Strickland5
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I did my best to keep my players interested in the plot point campain but also to tie in their backgrounds. One of my players had a character called "Murder Man" (think Deadpool without the 4th wall breaking, and you're 3/4 of the way to his character) who time and time again became the backbone of several game session simply because his backstory was one I pull from to craft strange and wonderful adventures
My campain came to an early end due to my players being overly cocky and not retreating when the V’sori were on to them. See my game summaries over -> here <-
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tstetz
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I'm getting ready to start up a NE campaign. It will also be my first run of SW in general. Me and a few of my players have played SW recently at a local Con, so we have a little exposure anyway.
Initially I was concerned that there was no other source material or adventures for NE, but I think after reading this thread and some others here on the forums I'm seeing the whole concept of the campaign better.
One question: I was toying with getting the Super Powers Companion before we started. I'm wondering though if we might be better off sticking withe core rules and the NE book though, especially just starting with the SW rules. We're a long experienced gaming group, just new to this setting.
Any thoughts or suggestions? |
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marshal kt
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 2396
Location: west palm beach, fl
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| tstetz wrote: | Okay, I'm getting ready to start up a NE campaign. It will also be my first run of SW in general. Me and a few of my players have played SW recently at a local Con, so we have a little exposure anyway.
Initially I was concerned that there was no other source material or adventures for NE, but I think after reading this thread and some others here on the forums I'm seeing the whole concept of the campaign better.
One question: I was toying with getting the Super Powers Companion before we started. I'm wondering though if we might be better off sticking withe core rules and the NE book though, especially just starting with the SW rules. We're a long experienced gaming group, just new to this setting.
Any thoughts or suggestions? |
The more options you have the better:
the better to confuse yourself with,
and,
the better to have a problem.
NE was written as the 1st supers rules.
The companion came later and added more. Some of which isn't or shouldn't be used in the NE setting.
You can always add them later after everyone gets a better grip on the core SW main rules and the NE setting rules.
[One of the characters did some research and discovered {blank} so now every can use it or find a way to apply it to their character.]
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SeventhZombie
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Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: Strangely.. |
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I recently started DMing a SW Supers game. I just own the SP companion and have been running strictly on that. Strangely my group has taken to villainy in amazing time. In less then 3 sessions they have managed to murder several innocents and destroyed more private property then I can count.
My character creation process had them drawing numbers after their initial creation of their characters. Each number was associated with a power set I had put together so there was a bit of randomness to each PC. The players were excited about the prospect and I did give them the Power Point edge the first session so they could modify and add to their power set giving a more customized feel.
But I'm having a devil of a time keeping them from being flat out killers. The were grow in a lab and started the game with no knowledge they were super powered beings and the first person they came across did betray them but now they use that as an excuse to never trust and to shoot first. Anyone have a suggestion on how to curb their psychotic enthusiasm. Short of killing one of them as a demonstration on what can happen when you go all out I'm at a bit of a loss. |
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