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X-com Enemy Unknown. Combat specialisation edges.

 
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: X-com Enemy Unknown. Combat specialisation edges. Reply with quote

I am running a campaign inspired by CG Enemy Unknown, and now trying some more crunch to SW edges, to make it feel more x-com. Using CG abilities as a source of inspiration. So, an assault set of combat specialisation edges:

Assault:
Run and gun
Novice, Agility d8, mutually exclusive with other CombatSpec Edges.
You can fully ignore run penalty for shooting, if you end your move before shooting.

Tactical sense
seasoned, Run and gun, Knowledge[battle] d4. Mutually exclusive with aggression.
You get +1 cover bonus if you see at least two enemies. You get +2 cover bonus if you see at least four enemies. This bonus does to stack with actual cover.

Aggression
Seasoned, Run and Gun, Spirit d8. Mutually exclusive with Tactical sense.
Your raise damage becomes d8 if you see one enemy, d10 if you see two enemies, and d12 if you see more.

Lightning reflexes
Seasoned, Run and Gun, agility d8, mutually exclusive with Close and Personal
When you are subject of opposed agility check in order to interrupt someone`s turn being on hold or trying to interrupt someone`s turn being on hold, you get +4 to result of your check.

Close and Personal
Seasoned, Run and Gun, fighting d6, shooting d8, mutually exclusive with Lightning reflexes
At the end of yor turn, yo may fire a single shot at enemy no further than 4'' as a free action.

Flush
Veteran, Run and Gun, shooting d10, Intimidation d8, mutually exclusive with Rapid fire
You fire a single shot with +2 bonus to hit, and if successful, target got only half damage, but in addition target is forced to check spirit, if target lose, it forced to move at least 3`` from it current location.

Rapid Fire
Veteran, Run and Gun, shooting d8, mutually exclusive with Flush
Yo can fire two single shots from your weapon, with usual MAP.

Close Combat Specialist
Veteran, Run and Gun, Notice d6, mutually exclusive with Bring `Em On.
You can fire a single shot when enemy comes closer than 4'', you have to win opposite agility check to do so, as if you are on hold. If you are actually on hold, or didn't act that turn yet, this shot does not cost you an action, nor incur MAP.

Bring `Em On.
Veteran, Run and Gun, mutually exclusive with Close Combat Specialist.
If you hit with a raise, id addition to normal effects, you deal additional damage, equal to number of enemies you can see (up to 5)

Extra Conditioning
Hero, Run and Gun, Vigor d8.
You get +1 to toughness if wear an armour. Bonus increases to +2 if it is heavy armour.

Resilence
Hero, Run and Gun, Vigor d10, mutually exclusive with Killer Instinct.
You are not subjectt of additional damage if you are hit with a raise.

Killer Instinct
Hero, Run and Gun, Agility d12, mutually exclusive with Resilence.
If you use Run an Gun, your attack counts as ``hit with raise'', if it`s result is 2 higher than TN, not 4.
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:35 am    Post subject: Heavy Reply with quote

Fire Rocket
Novice, Strength d8, mutually exclusive with other CombatSpec Edges.
If you misfire with a area attack weapon, you roll the direction of misfire twice, and chose best result. Your load limit is 8 lb per point of strength. If you are also Brawny, it is 10 lb per point of strength instead. You got +2 to any persuasion or requisition roll involving your supply with anti-tank weapons.

Bullet swarm.
Seasoned, Fire Rocket, Shooting d8, Vigor d8, mutually exclusive with Holo-Targeting.
If your only action in a round if Full Auto fire, you can double the ROF of your weapon. This shoot however consume quadruple Full-Auto ammunition.

Holo-Targeting.
Seasoned, Fire Rocket, Repair d8, mutually exclusive with Bullet swarm.
Using special tracer ammunition, you add +1 to allies attack against your targets. Bonus increase to +2 if you target only one enemy that round.

Shredder Rocket.
Seasoned, Fire Rocket, Repair d8, mutually exclusive with Suppression.
Enemis, hit with your Area attack weapon lower their armour by 2. Doing so you lower your area attack template one step.

Suppression.
Seasoned, Fire Rocket, Knowledge[battle] d6, mutually exclusive with Shredder Rocket.
Once per round, when you hit an enemy, you may chose to suppress it instead of dealing damage. If suppressed enemy moves, you get a free single shot attack against that enemy. When suppressed, enemy check it`s spirit, and on fail it gets -2 to all ranged attack for its next turn.

HEAT Ammo
Veteran, Fire Rocket, Repair d8, mutually exclusive with Rapid Reaction.
your area effect attack against non-living targets deal +4 damage.

Rapid Reaction
Veteran, Fire Rocket, Agility d10, mutually exclusive with HEAT Ammo.
Confers a second reaction shot if your shot granted by suppression hit, or if you win an opposed agility roll when on hold, an reacting to enemy moving, and hit.

Grenadier
Veteran, Fire Rocket, Throwing d6, mutually exclusive with Danger Zone.
You can ready throwing grenade as a free action. In addition, grenades you throw deal +1 damage.

Danger Zone
Veteran, Fire Rocket, Repair d8, mutually exclusive with Grenadier.
Increases templates of area effect attack by one step, (LBT becomes 1'' wider) In addition, you can suppress multiple enemies in given round.

Will to survive
Hero, Fire Rocket, Spirit d8.
Free soaking rolls when in cover.

Rocketeer
Hero, Fire rocket, mutually exclusive with Mayhem.
Ammo to area effect weapons considered weighting one half of its real weight for purposes of load limit.

Mayhem
Hero, Fire rockets, Repair d8, mutually exclusive with Rocketeer.
Add +2 to damage of Suppression shots, Rapid Reaction shots and all area effect attacks.
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Sitting Duck
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of your Edge requirements state being mutually exclusive with some other Edge. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Please clarify.
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The One
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many Edges IMO, you've tried to convert all the mechanics listed in the game instead of looking at the intent and converting that. In addition, some of your mechanics are overpowered, for example giving a -1 or -2 to hit if the enemies outnumber you is the equivilent of an always on Deflection power or changing the raise increment to 2 instead of 4.

I'd consider condensing the whole lot down into a basic, and Improved version for each "class" that appears in the X-COM game, and consider that many of the reaction traits can be better modelled with someone going on hold.
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aaa13
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Location: Kiev

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sitting Duck wrote:
Most of your Edge requirements state being mutually exclusive with some other Edge. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Please clarify.


In x-com CG you can take one or another, but you cannot take both. It is not like the Savage wolds edges work, but i see no harm there.
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The One wrote:
I'd consider condensing the whole lot down into a basic, and Improved version for each "class" that appears in the X-COM game, and consider that many of the reaction traits can be better modelled with someone going on hold.


Problem is, that x-com classes have a lot of special abilities, so if I squish all of them into one or two edges, they will be definitely overpowered. Current idea is to mechanically convert all abilities, and let the players choose, which ones they want.
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OSIAdept
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One route you can go is to have a core professional edge and have an edge tree associated with that profession.
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OSIAdept wrote:
One route you can go is to have a core professional edge and have an edge tree associated with that profession.


This was my first idea. But then the tree would be too large, so I decided to have four core edges, one per specialisation, and other edges require a high rank and core edge.
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Jounichi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savage Worlds doesn't have a strict class system, but you can improvise. I suggest taking a cue from Weird Wars II and designing a series of packages for different types of service. They're less about taking specific Edges and more about having base proficiency.

From there you can design a few Edges to further specialize, but be careful not to overlap with core Edges; or to make your new ones too powerful. Run and Gun is basically Steady Hands, and many of your other Edges are too powerful.

Not all of the mechanics are going to translate over well. The important thing is to convert the flavor. This can be accomplished with other rules. How is Rapid Fire better than a 3RB or standard RoF 3? You're better off tweaking that to be an improvement to Rapid Attack. Start off by seeing how much the core rules already can cover for you, and then fill in gaps where necessary.
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jounichi wrote:
Savage Worlds doesn't have a strict class system, but you Run and Gun is basically Steady Hands

No, Steady Hands eliminates unstable platform penalty, and lessen Run penalty to -1. Run and Gun eliminates Run penalty, and have nothing to do with unstable platform. I was writing Run and Gun keeping Steady Hands in mind, in order to get it balanced.

Quote:
How is Rapid Fire better than a 3RB or standard RoF 3?


Why it should be better? It is an alternative, designed keeping in mind frenzy, as a ranged analog.

Quote:
and many of your other Edges are too powerful

Could you please state which ones? I was trying to keep some balance.
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Jounichi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Run And Gun and Steady Hands don't fully stack, and the character would have to take three actions in the turn to see a measurable benefit. Steady Hands also offers more general utility, which makes it more attractive. What's more is the -1 penalty to running can easily be offset by a DT, 3RB, laser sight, or some other in-game mechanic.

2) Rapid Fire is not a ranged Frenzy. Frenzy is two Fighting dice and one Wild Die; effectively giving the melee attack RoF 2. If there are multiple Frenzy targets, they must be adjacent. You are proposing a clear duplication of an action in a single turn, which means the targets can be in opposite directions. There are already a multitude of weapons which can have RoF 2 or greater, so ranged Frenzy becomes moot.

I suggested improving the Rapid Attack maneuver because it's an existing game mechanic which fullfills your needs. Reskin the Hip Shooting Edges from DL:R and you've got all you need there.

3) Tactical Sense increases cover (and armor) the more enemies you face. Aggression increases the Raise Die. How being more aggressive makes your bullets hit harder/more accurately I don't fully grasp.

Lightning Reflexes confers a +4 bonus. This is, plain and simply, overpowered; and broken when used in combination with Close Combat Specialist. Make it a +2 bonus, and change the prerequisites to be Combat Reflexes.

Flush is basically a ranged Push with some unanswered questions. Does the affected target chose the direction? Does the movement count against them for this turn or the next? What's the point?

Want me to go into the second post?
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aaa13
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jounichi wrote:
1) Run And Gun and Steady Hands don't fully stack, and the character would have to take three actions in the turn to see a measurable benefit.

I got the point. There should be some compensation for characters, who want to take both edges. I probably add 1 step running die increase for caracters having both Run and Gun and Steady Hand.



Quote:
Rapid Fire is not a ranged Frenzy. Frenzy is two Fighting dice and one Wild Die; effectively giving the melee attack RoF 2. If there are multiple Frenzy targets, they must be adjacent. You are proposing a clear duplication of an action in a single turn, which means the targets can be in opposite directions. There are already a multitude of weapons which can have RoF 2 or greater, so ranged Frenzy becomes moot.


Also good point. Actually i didn't see, how ranged frenzy better than high RoF. But two separate attack is better than attack with RoF 2. It its like Ambidexterity, which allow you to attack twice with pistols. One shot from two handed weapon looks bit more powerful, than shot from a pistol, but I always consider a ambidexterity a bit under power. And, hell, it is veteran edge, it should be more powerful than novice Ambidexterity!


Quote:
I suggested improving the Rapid Attack maneuver because it's an existing game mechanic which fullfills your needs. Reskin the Hip Shooting Edges from DL:R and you've got all you need there.


Hip shooting looks quite overpower. And allowing to use it with modern or ultramodern weapon looks overpower as hell.

Quote:
Tactical Sense increases cover (and armor) the more enemies you face. Aggression increases the Raise Die. How being more aggressive makes your bullets hit harder/more accurately I don't fully grasp.


It is exactly how it works in CG. Assault class made for reckless charges, and look like suicidal tactic. I probably should state that this edges are somehow supernatural.

Quote:
Lightning Reflexes confers a +4 bonus. This is, plain and simply, overpowered; and broken when used in combination with Close Combat Specialist. Make it a +2 bonus, and change the prerequisites to be Combat Reflexes.


I actually didn't see, why you see Lightning Reflexes as so overpower. Yes, +4 is almost auto win, but it is auto win in very limited use tactical option. My players almost never go on hold.

Close Combat Specialist is ranged weapon version of First Strike. And it looks less powerful, since melee opponents have a reason to come closer to you, but in modern firefight, opponents have little resin to come closer.

Quote:
Flush is basically a ranged Push with some unanswered questions. Does the affected target chose the direction? Does the movement count against them for this turn or the next? What's the point?


Yes, it definitely need more attention. Probably, to avoid exploits, target should be allowed to choose direction, and movement should not count toward the target movement limits at all.

Quote:
Want me to go into the second post?

Yep, I realise that my work is far from final, and any feedback is quite useful.
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Jounichi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not helping you.

You're too hung up on converting all the individual skills of the classes into Edges, while ignoring pre-existing game mechanics. Assuming you continue on as you have, that's 12 Edges per class and 7 possible Edges per character. That's a lot of very narrow development. There's little to no room for other types of Edges, or for Psionics.
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