Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Missiles? How do they play?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
farik
Seasoned


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Missiles? How do they play? Reply with quote

So I'm working on some high tech settings with assorted Mecha and weapon systems (chomping at the bit for sci-Fi companion) and I'm starting to wonder about the missile mechanics.

As written they seem to be well suited for dog fights and big plot events but I'm not as comfortable with them in a more traditional tactical fight between powered armor or giant robots.

Has anyone used the rules as written in this type of situation?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mgtzx
Novice


Joined: 08 May 2013
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The missile rules do work well for dogfights; they represent nicely that a missile moves much slower than a small projectile - they take more time to reach their target, and the target has opportunity to shake it more than just their ranged Target Number. I've not used them in a tactical fight (only in Chases), but at a glance I think they would still work well depending on the scale. If you don't think they'd work well for your game, it might be better to just treat them as Rocket Launchers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5922

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's your concern regarding missiles in short range fights? I'm looking for precise descriptions and specific concerns.

Looking at them, I think they're perfect for any missile launch from further than 50 inches. Within 50", I tend to ignore the "dodge" feature.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
farik
Seasoned


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to keep missiles distinctive from rockets we have considered giving missiles their own shooting skill die rather than using the skill of the character.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
farik
Seasoned


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
What's your concern regarding missiles in short range fights? I'm looking for precise descriptions and specific concerns.

Looking at them, I think they're perfect for any missile launch from further than 50 inches. Within 50", I tend to ignore the "dodge" feature.


We want to preserve a sense of variety in weapon systems while still keeping things FFF.

At short range the missiles are effectively identical to rockets or large explosive ballistics. At longer ranges there is some concern about potentially slowing down play with unresolved missile impacts but that's less of a concern.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5922

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

farik wrote:
We want to preserve a sense of variety in weapon systems while still keeping things FFF.

Missiles, almost without exception, have higher payloads and better ranges than rockets, in exchange for fewer shots. In savage terms, this would be more range, more AP, and larger per-shot damage. Rockets would have higher rates of fire, allowing for powerful barrages of smaller individual damage.
Heck, that's how most mecha games differentiate between them.

Keeping the "evade missiles" quality makes them feel different. It also makes them more interesting and tense to resolve, slowing the game slightly to increase the fun greatly.
The slow down is pretty marginal, and will happen at any range. Just remember that each missile 'attack' is a single evasion roll and it should go quickly.

Good luck!
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ogbendog
Legendary


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 2271

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus if you want to add rules for it, you can have missiles loose lock, and lock onto a new target.

As in the movie Hunt for Red October
_________________
Bill Ogden
Author of Kaiser's Gate Field Manual Vol 1: Mounts, now available for purchase.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/119241/Kaisers-Gate-Field-Manual-Mounts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steelbrok
Veteran


Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 850
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

farik wrote:
Just to keep missiles distinctive from rockets we have considered giving missiles their own shooting skill die rather than using the skill of the character.


I like this idea
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ogbendog
Legendary


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 2271

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm AFB right now, but IIRC you roll for lock, then as a free action you can launch missles, right?

Going with the idea that missles have their own skill, I'd be tempted to give them a + 1 for each raise the gunner got, to model the idea of a really good lock.
_________________
Bill Ogden
Author of Kaiser's Gate Field Manual Vol 1: Mounts, now available for purchase.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/119241/Kaisers-Gate-Field-Manual-Mounts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5922

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
I'm AFB right now, but IIRC you roll for lock, then as a free action you can launch missles, right?

The lock is your "attack" roll. But since it's not a Shooting roll, it can't hit with a raise.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ogbendog
Legendary


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 2271

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, I nknow it can't hit with a raise for more damage. I was suggesting that instead of more damage, you could give the missle attack roll a bonus if the Lock roll was very good
_________________
Bill Ogden
Author of Kaiser's Gate Field Manual Vol 1: Mounts, now available for purchase.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/119241/Kaisers-Gate-Field-Manual-Mounts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5922

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
I was suggesting that instead of more damage, you could give the missle attack roll a bonus if the Lock roll was very good

... They're the same roll. Locking on is all you have to do (and it's affected by range). Once you lock on, flip a switch and the missile will try to follow your lock, and the only other roll the missile makes is for damage.

Are you proposing additional penalties on the evasion roll? Because that's already extremely difficult.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ogbendog
Legendary


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 2271

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, yes.

Although I thought if you had defenses, chaff and such, it wasn't as bad.
_________________
Bill Ogden
Author of Kaiser's Gate Field Manual Vol 1: Mounts, now available for purchase.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/119241/Kaisers-Gate-Field-Manual-Mounts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5922

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
Although I thought if you had defenses, chaff and such, it wasn't as bad.

If you've got countermeasures then you get a +2 (any AMCM) / +4 (exactly correct AMCM) bonus on the piloting roll to evade. That's a big, big help and definitely qualifies as "not as bad".
It is still at -4. Which is pretty freaking bad.

So an Ace pilot with AMCM would be on Piloting (-4 +2 (Ace) +2 (AMCM)) -0 to evade incoming missiles. Assuming a wild card, he's got a 9 / (6 * skill die) chance of failing that roll. Best case, he's popping flares to avoid a heat-seaking missile (or chaff for radar guided, etc.) and he's got a net modifier of +2 to the roll, and only fails on a snake eyes.

Normal pilots (i.e. not Ace) would be on Piloting -2 / -0 with the same AMCM. Not good odds when the missile is almost certain to wreck your aircraft, get three chances to roll a "crew" critical hit, and send you plunging to the earth.
Without AMCM, evading missiles is nearly impossible (piloting a -4), especially if you already failed to evade the other pilot's lock.

The overall result is very much like the final dogfight in Top Gun (which is almost certainly intentional).
Really good pilots have a decent chance of evading a missile or two, while their luck holds, especially at longer ranges. Less excellent pilots tend to explode.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum