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stormtrooper marksmanship type hindrance
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dugfromthearth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: stormtrooper marksmanship type hindrance Reply with quote

Brash

Your character is overconfident is his skill. When you make a attack you suffer a -2 as a minor hindrance or a -4 as a major hindrance. Every round that you attack and miss with all attacks the penalty is reduced by 1.

Example: Sir Joule is majorly brash and attacks with a Frenzy making 2 attacks at -6 (-2 for Frenzy, -4 for Brash). Both miss. Next round he suffers only a -3 for Brash and makes a single attack which hits. Next round he still suffers a -3 for Brash and misses. Next round he suffers only a -2 for Brash, etc.

Note: This can be used for PCs but is also very useful for NPCs. It is a good hindrance for Stormtroopers who always miss with the first shot, for example.
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Sitting Duck
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormtroopers would be Extras and therefore not get a Wild Die. That makes them less accurate than a Wild Card. For example, assuming no modifiers are applied, an Extra with d6 in Shooting has a 50% chance of of scoring a hit while a Wild card with the same skill level has a 75% chance.
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steelbrok
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

counting down a hindrance round by round doesn't strike me as FFF

If I was going to use it I would simply use the modifier on the first round and forget about it thereafter
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Talison
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never bought the Stormtrooper inaccuracy theory. They hit everything that moves besides the main heroes. Sounds like normal mooks to me.
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Wiggy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Ewoks -- they rarely hit Ewoks.

If you're absolutely dedicated to make "stormtroopers" (as in any low-level grunt) crap, why not declare they can never Ace on Shooting? Or if they can hit but don't cause a lot of damage, limit their damage dice to either no Aces or just one Ace. There's lots of ways to limit them without needing a Hindrance.
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dugfromthearth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) this isn't just limited to mooks. Superman is always careless at first and then tries harder when he is "losing". Major villains can toy with a hero and not go for a killing blow the first round.

2) the issue with stormtroopers is not making them bad. The issue is making them not overwhelm the characters immediately. If they never hit they don't matter. If they mow the heroes down on the first round it isn't heroic. They need to be a threat to the heroes but not too much of a threat.
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Pfr_Fate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dugfromthearth wrote:
Superman is always careless at first and then tries harder when he is "losing".


He's finally spending his bennies.



As to Stormtroopers in Star Wars:

Just say that Blasters are clumsy and random, not an elegant weapon (where HAVE I heard that before?).

Most Blasters have a '-2' to hit do to recoil (Leia had trouble using those carbines), unless they are expensively very well-designed (like those of a Bounty Hunter, a princess with a pistol or a scoundral smuggler).

Storm-troopers would have a d4 (remembering that a d4 IS skilled - most normals have no skill: d4-2). So, getting a 4+ with a '-2' on a d4 is like 18%. You need a Raise, then a 2+.

The standard hero with a d6 and Wild DIe on a '-2' blaster needs about a 40%. Give them a special blaster or an Edge to off-set the recoil, then it's 75%.

FFF? Most Blasters have a high recoil for '-2'. Get one of those Han Solo 'flash supressors' thingies, a Leia or Padme long-barreled pistol or a Bowcaster with extensions and weights for balancng Wookie Strength.
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shadd4d
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number 2 is a quirk of the system. If your group of 3 PC wild cards decide to take on a group of 12 extras...they had better have some cunning tactics or they will be mowed down. Another idea would be to play with the initiative possibilities, maybe a reverse of the Quick edge in which stormtroopers have to discard cards that are face cards or something not counting jokers. It will mean that they will always lose initiative.

Number 1 is just a choice in tactics; trying a called shot to a leg to have them hobble around or tricks or tests of will to basically wow the guy as opposed to a first round killing blow. It's the difference between a trying to do nonlethal, a normal attack and a wild attack. And Superman is an idiot anyway.

You need to approach combat like Batman. Wink

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Pfr_Fate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh: and another Star Wars type thing: Armor. Why do they still drop like flies?

Well, their armor protects against small damages caused by rabble (+2 Toughness), is insulated and provides life-support, and provides advanced comm procedures and detection devices, but it's main function in battle is like modern bullet proof vests - it tries to keep a man from being mortally injured (+1 or +2 on the Incapacitation Table).

That and Blaster recoil should have your Troopers falling nicely and your heroes getting advantages from the equipment.

-
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dugfromthearth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfr_Fate wrote:
dugfromthearth wrote:
Superman is always careless at first and then tries harder when he is "losing".


He's finally spending his bennies.

As to Stormtroopers in Star Wars:

Just say that Blasters are clumsy and random, not an elegant weapon (where HAVE I heard that before?).

Most Blasters have a '-2' to hit do to recoil (Leia had trouble using those carbines), unless they are expensively very well-designed (like those of a Bounty Hunter, a princess with a pistol or a scoundral smuggler).

Storm-troopers would have a d4 (remembering that a d4 IS skilled - most normals have no skill: d4-2). So, getting a 4+ with a '-2' on a d4 is like 18%. You need a Raise, then a 2+.

The standard hero with a d6 and Wild DIe on a '-2' blaster needs about a 40%. Give them a special blaster or an Edge to off-set the recoil, then it's 75%.

FFF? Most Blasters have a high recoil for '-2'. Get one of those Han Solo 'flash supressors' thingies, a Leia or Padme long-barreled pistol or a Bowcaster with extensions and weights for balancng Wookie Strength.


yes, a d4 skilled stormtrooper is terrible at shooting. But they are supposed to be excellent at shooting. Leia says that only stormtroopers could shoot so well. They slaughter everyone - except the heroes. And the heroes are not dodging - they miss the heroes even when the heroes are not looking at them.

So you can have excellent troopers who kill the heroes as easily as the heroes minions, or terrible troopers that can't shoot anything. Instead of troopers who are a credible threat but give the heroes a bit of time to react.

and if you don't like superhero - maybe a swordsman who is looking for a man with a seven fingered hand fights with his left hand normally instead of his right because if he fights with his right it would be too easy - until he discovers his opponent is really good and he switches.

I agree with Steelbrok that the mechanic is clumsy. A simpler - do badly until you realize you need to really try would be easier. Not sure what that would be. Taking damage would mean a mook would do badly until they are taken out. One round is very close to the existing hindrance (maybe it's in pirates) where you cannot attack the first round. You could just use that but change it to you do attack but always miss?
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The Vulture
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with Steelbrok that the mechanic is clumsy. A simpler - do badly until you realize you need to really try would be easier.


Couldn't this be more of a roleplaying thing for the character with this hindrance rather than a nigh-crippling mechanic like that?
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TommyBrownell
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talison wrote:
I've never bought the Stormtrooper inaccuracy theory. They hit everything that moves besides the main heroes. Sounds like normal mooks to me.


I always kinda figured they were under orders to NOT hit the main heroes, as well.

How mad would Vader have been if a random Stormtrooper had whacked Luke?

The Stormtroopers always managed to herd the main heroes exactly where they needed to be...
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Talison
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said, Tommy.
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Pfr_Fate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK ... showing my geekdom here:

Kenobi said only Stormtroopers could be so precise - because they knew where to hit the transport. However, that does not mean that they have a d6 or better. It just means that Stormtroopers were better than most people with blasters attacks. So, since most civilians have a d4-2 with Shooting, that still tracks.

In much the same way, if one came across a truck shot to hell by army, it would be done with more efficiency than most civilians. If Ben was refering to the attack not being made by bandits or Sandpeople (which may have had a d4), the Stormtroopers could have a d6.

Still having Blasters with a near uniform '-2' would still track, however, since Sandpeople, bandits and others would likely be under the same '-2'. Stormtroopers would still be more precise.

Just not so precise as to hit the heroes running around.
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TommyBrownell
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormtroopers were the end result of the clone troopers, which killed Jedi en masse (they had the element of surprise, yes, but that element would have meant squat if those first shots had missed, kinda like with Kenobi, really). I don't think that assuming that the Stormtroopers are actually pretty competent is a huge leap, but it's not something I feel THAT strongly about, so consider my piece said...=)
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't matter, doesn't need to be a Hindrance. The Wild Card heroes of Star Wars had plot immunity. That's all. Has nothing to do with the marksmanship of the stormtroopers - in many circumstances, they prove that they can shoot things. It's just the heroes they have trouble hitting.

Additionally, doesn't Luke say "I can't see a thing in this helmet?" Perhaps it's equipment more than marksmanship.
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Pfr_Fate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess, basically, you are looking for the proper 'feel' of Stormtroopers blasting away at heroes. Since the 'feel' is largely subjective and beholding to how much 'reality' you want to belnd into your mix, the only solid advice is: feel free to do anything that works. Adjust dice, hit probabilites, range, heroic aura or whatever.

That's a good thing about Savage Worlds....no-one is gonna go all rules-lawyer' on you if change things up for your game.'
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, I remembered a common Setting Rule for several games: Wild Cards never count as Unarmed Defenders in many settings. It's not a big stretch to inflict Extras with an automatic -2 Shooting penalty.
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skylion
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, just have me roll for them, guaranteed to suck 100 percent of the time.
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FoxBlue
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the heroes just had a GM who was really generous with bennies...
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