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[SPC] Immunity

 
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: [SPC] Immunity Reply with quote

I'm thinking of a new modifier for Immunity, and I'd like some feedback.

Background Effects (-3): Your immunity only protects against environmental and background effects. It has no effect upon damage.

My pricing idea was to make it a) on par with Ageless (immunity to aging effects) and b) affordable to make a character that can fly through space safely.

So, what do other folks think?
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't personally compare it with Ageless, as a direct attack with an "aging" trapping wouldn't even affect an Ageless character - so it's actually better than Immunity, but only against a very specific damage type. Immunity (fire/heat) is probably going to come up far more frequently during play in most campaigns.

1 PP to make you immune to one particular type of background or environmental damage seems reasonable - in fact you could probably view Aquatic as "Immunity (underwater environment)" with your modifier.

But how would that stack with the other Immunity modifiers? If you took Background Effects, Requires Activation and Almost Complete Coverage, wouldn't that give you immunity to almost all forms of environmental and background damage for just 1 PP (technically 0, but rounded up to 1)?

You may also want to check out the 2 PP Life Support power on Savagepedia, explicitly designed "for characters who want to fly in space"
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seanwalsh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a GM, I might be inclined to grant all heroes immunity from the vacuum of space as a setting rule, if the heroes were going to be flying in space a lot. Certainly some would have the immunity naturally, while others would use mechanical devices, but unless it was important to make it difficult to move through space, I would permit the heroes the ability to solve that problem easily. 1 PP seems reasonable to me.

However, Background Effects (-3): as a modifier to Immunity raises red flags to me. In my mind the immunity to the background effects can often be more powerful, more desirable, than taking 1/2 damage. With a high toughness, Soak rolls and Armor you can reduce the impact of damage, but often you cannot reduce the effect of the incidentals.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zadmar wrote:
But how would that stack with the other Immunity modifiers? If you took Background Effects, Requires Activation and Almost Complete Coverage, wouldn't that give you immunity to almost all forms of environmental and background damage for just 1 PP (technically 0, but rounded up to 1)?

I'm pretty sure the total cost would still be 4.
4 - 3 - 1 = 0, minimum 1, x4 = 4.
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29244 This post and general game-balance logic leave me thinking so. Of course, I could be mistaken.

I'd totally forgotten about Life Support. Gracias.
seanwalsh wrote:
In my mind the immunity to the background effects can often be more powerful, more desirable, than taking 1/2 damage. With a high toughness, Soak rolls and Armor you can reduce the impact of damage, but often you cannot reduce the effect of the incidentals.

A good Vigor roll can avoid most background effects (heat and cold, radiation, etc.). But I don't want to give every "super-tough and gets to ignore non-attacks" character a d12+4 or better Vigor - sure, a lot of them will have it for other reasons, but not all of them.
And yes, it is desirable, because there are a lot of characters that simply don't have to worry about it. But that doesn't mean that lightning bolts hurt any less.

If 1 PP is good enough for Immunity (outer space), then I don't see how 4 PP for Immunity (environments, except [weakness]) is unbalanced. 8 PP for it just seems like too many - a character could have 11 points of Ranged Attack (Device) for the same PP cost, which will probably be more relevant to the campaign.
Though that formula Zadmar cited does make me more hesitant to leave it a -3, especially if I'm mistaken about the cost formula.
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
I'm pretty sure the total cost would still be 4.
4 - 3 - 1 = 0, minimum 1, x4 = 4.
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29244 This post and general game-balance logic leave me thinking so.

Here's a clearer example: Immunity and Modifiers

Garuda wrote:
If a character has Immunity (4PP) with both available modifiers - Requires Activation (-1PP) and Almost Complete Coverage (x4PP) what is the total cost of the power?

Clint wrote:
...the cost would be 12 PPs in the example above.

We know that "Unless stated otherwise, all powers cost a minimum of 1 Power Point". The only question is whether or not the PP cost can be reduced below 1 during the calculation, but I've always ruled it could (eg for Infection + Always On + Strong).

How about turning Aquatic into a more generic power, eg:

Environmental Adaption (1)

You have adapted to one specific harsh or unusual environment. You no longer need to roll to survive exposure to background hazards specific to that environment. Add +2 to any trait rolls for moving through your chosen environment. If your Pace within that environment is normally a halved trait, then use the full trait instead; if not, then ignore penalties for Difficult Ground.

Modifiers
* Native (-1): You require regular access to a certain substance from your home environment. This is treated as a Major Habit, except that Incapacitation results in death within 24 hours. This limitation does make this power free, but if you take Environmental Adaption multiple times then only one of them can have this modifier.

Examples: Underwater, Underground, Mountains, Swamps, Arctic, Desert, Space, Hell.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zadmar wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
I'm pretty sure the total cost would still be 4.
4 - 3 - 1 = 0, minimum 1, x4 = 4.
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29244 This post and general game-balance logic leave me thinking so.

Here's a clearer example: Immunity and Modifiers

Ah, the blindness of our own beliefs. Embarassed I came across that one and considered it irrelevant.
Quote:
How about turning Aquatic into a more generic power,

Interesting. The categories will probably take some adjusting, but it's not a bad model. Thanks.
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