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Soulliard
Novice
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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 Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:24 am Post subject: Savage Worlds Plus |
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This document is the culmination of tweaking the rules of Savage Worlds during the course of over two years of play. It contains significant changes and additions to the core rules, which are appropriate for a variety of settings. These changes are guided by three common principles:
• Simplicity (making the game Faster): These rules cut down on the amount of record-keeping needed to play the game. It’s no longer necessary to track power points, durations, currency or spare ammunition. The rules let you ignore the boring stuff and spend more time on what’s fun.
• Creativity (making the game more Fun): At the same time, there are more options for character creation than ever before. Almost any character concept can be created in Savage Worlds Plus. Players are only limited by their creativity. When players can play whatever character they want to, they get more involved in the game, and everyone has a better time.
• Balance (making the game more Fair): Even with all these changes, Savage Worlds Plus remains as well-balanced as the core game. Any reasonable character concept will be a valuable addition to the party, without overpowering the other characters and stealing the spotlight.
The rules were designed with a supernatural pulp setting in mind. However, they are appropriate for any setting that is both heroic and weird, from fantasy to sci-fi to supers. The rules assume that heroes are better than regular people and sometimes possess strange supernatural abilities, so Savage Worlds Plus isn’t particularly appropriate for survival horror or gritty realism.
This package contains a number of house rules, which work best together but can easily be mixed and matched:
• Condensed Skills: The Skill list is smaller, combining many of the niche skills. Players don’t need to waste large amounts of skill points on skills that will see little use.
• More Edges and Hindrances: These Edges and Hindrances can be added to any game to allow players to create almost any type of character, including strange monsters, aliens and super-powered beings. Race creation was combined with regular character creation and advancement.
• Simplified Equipment: Equipment statistics are condensed to their most important attributes. Tracking ammunition and wealth is simplified, and tied to character creation and advancement.
• No Power Points: The rewritten and rebalanced Power system allows characters to use supernatural abilities all day long.
These rules have been a huge success with my gaming group. They’ve allowed us to unleash our creativity in new ways, without making the game unbalanced or overly complex. I hope you enjoy them as much as we have.
The house rules have been tested fairly extensively by my group, with the exception of the No Power Points rules, which are still in early testing.
Last edited by Soulliard on Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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warrenss2
Veteran
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 867
Location: Augusta, GA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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I really like this, but I don't think I'm experienced enough to judge something without play testing it for a while.
I've been thinking of making up some new Edges, but you have done a few for me already.
Parkour
Horseman
Aggressive (Quick Tempered?)
Iron Chin (Iron Jaw?)
etc...
Like that Archery can be improved on.
How would you handle a Professional Edge where the character is a Stage Magician and/or Escape Artist? (Houdini is a hero of mine)
I've always have kinda glossed over money issues too. Like the Standard and Superior ideas, but I'm not sure I'd burn an Edge to get the Superior item. That is when I would mentally calculate for availability and price tag of the object. I guess your rules make them appropriately rare though.
Cool ideas!!!
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Sitting Duck
Legendary
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 4559
Location: Podunk Junction, State of Confusion
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| warrenss2 wrote: | | How would you handle a Professional Edge where the character is a Stage Magician and/or Escape Artist? (Houdini is a hero of mine) |
Sticking with the Core Rules, Thief provides bonuses to Lockpicking and Stealth, both skills that would see frequent use by an escape artist.
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Cutter XXIII
Legendary
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2758
Location: I dwell in the Village of Rock, MD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:42 am Post subject: |
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You might want to take another look at the Savage Fan License, Soulliard.
Particularly this:
| Fan Materials License wrote: | | The licensee agrees not to reproduce material from the Savage Worlds rulebook or any other copyrighted work without the express written consent of Pinnacle Entertainment Group or the copyright holder. |
It's OK to distribute a document containing all the ways your system differs from SW; we love that, as long as it's got a Fan logo and follows the rules.
But right now you've got a whole bunch of text copied and pasted from Savage Worlds, which is really not OK.
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Matthew Cutter
Deadlands Big Bug (Brand Manager)
Pinnacle Entertainment Group, Inc. |
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Soulliard
Novice
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutter XXIII wrote: | | You might want to take another look at the Savage Fan License, Soulliard. |
My sincerest apologies. I had originally typed this up for my group (who all own a copy of Savage Worlds), and in my excitement to share it, I just threw on the title page without even thinking of the license issues. The new link removes all the copied text I could find. Let me know if there are still problems with it.
| warrenss2 wrote: | | Like that Archery can be improved on. |
I tried to make archery a viable choice even in modern settings. It's inferior to firearms in most ways, but it has a few advantages that make it worth considering.
| Quote: | | How would you handle a Professional Edge where the character is a Stage Magician and/or Escape Artist? (Houdini is a hero of mine) |
The Thief and Acrobat edges in the core rules would make anyone a good escape artist. If you wanted to perform actual magic on stage, Prestidigitation was a power designed for that purpose, and Illusion can create the appearance of almost anything.
| Quote: | | I've always have kinda glossed over money issues too. Like the Standard and Superior ideas, but I'm not sure I'd burn an Edge to get the Superior item. |
Superior items generally get a +2 bonus over the standard equivalent (if there is one). That's worth an edge, as long as you have the Strength to carry and use the item effectively. |
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Zadmar
Heroic
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 1381
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| warrenss2 wrote: | I've been thinking of making up some new Edges, but you have done a few for me already.
Parkour
Horseman
Aggressive (Quick Tempered?)
Iron Chin (Iron Jaw?)
etc... |
I believe many of them come from other settings - Horseman is on Savagepedia and comes from Shaintar, for example. Iron Jaw works like Take the Hit in Necessary Evil, however +2 Soak seems pretty weak if you're also using Elan, I wouldn't normally use both Edges in the same setting.
Construct and Undead seem extremely strong, despite adding additional hindrances. Some of the other Edges I'd have second thoughts about (like Regeneration), although overall it's nice to have a large number of Edges collected in one place.
I do wonder if it's intentional that the staff gives +2 Parry though. That seems a bit much. |
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Cutter XXIII
Legendary
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 2758
Location: I dwell in the Village of Rock, MD
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Soulliard wrote: | | Cutter XXIII wrote: | | You might want to take another look at the Savage Fan License, Soulliard. |
My sincerest apologies. I had originally typed this up for my group (who all own a copy of Savage Worlds), and in my excitement to share it, I just threw on the title page without even thinking of the license issues. The new link removes all the copied text I could find. Let me know if there are still problems with it. |
Wow... that was fast! Thanks a bunch! 
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Matthew Cutter
Deadlands Big Bug (Brand Manager)
Pinnacle Entertainment Group, Inc. |
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Dracones
Seasoned
Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 146
Location: Fort Pierce, Fl
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I like the condensed skills and think a lot of the choices here make sense. Some of the new edges and hindrances are pretty nice.
The money system doesn't really appeal to me. My only complaint with money in a Savage setting is if $1 doesn't equal 1 whatever currency the setting uses. Rippers I'm looking at you.
I've seen the casting penalty system in Marchlands and.... I don't like it. Let's say I'm a d8 caster and throw a 3d6 blast in core, it'll cost me a lot of PP but I have a 81% chance of it going off. In your rules though that drops down to 25%. Throwing the dice down with only a 1 in 4 chance(and that's before wound penalties or spell maintaining) just doesn't sound like a good time. I'd much rather blow off my daily resource, but hey, something cool happened.
I know there's an edge that reduces CP by 1, but then that becomes a tax and with core I can take the PP edge multiple times if I want to go big all the time, but it's not required.
The only thing that's fiddly to me with the PP system is having to spend more to maintain spells after 3 rounds. House rule that out though and PPs work really well. |
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Soulliard
Novice
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Zadmar wrote: | | I believe many of them come from other settings - Horseman is on Savagepedia and comes from Shaintar, for example. Iron Jaw works like Take the Hit in Necessary Evil, however +2 Soak seems pretty weak if you're also using Elan, I wouldn't normally use both Edges in the same setting. |
A few Edges and Hindrances were taken from online sources, although Horseman was based on Ace and just happens to be similar to the Shaintar edge. I split Elan into two Edges, since it was so powerful - Elan only applies to rerolls, and Iron Chin only applies to soaking.
| Quote: | | Construct and Undead seem extremely strong, despite adding additional hindrances. Some of the other Edges I'd have second thoughts about (like Regeneration), although overall it's nice to have a large number of Edges collected in one place. |
Construct and Undead are very powerful, although they're balanced a bit by making it more difficult to heal the character. Regeneration is also powerful, but less so than you might think. Usually, a given character leaves combat in Savage Worlds either undamaged or dead, since bennies often act more like hit points than wounds do. As a result, Regeneration doesn't come into play that often, and it does nothing to help a character survive during the course of a combat. Plus, it has steep requirements. That said, Regeneration does change the feel of the game a lot, so it's not going to work for every game.
Now, Undead combined with Regeneration is probably overpowered. I'll give you that.
| Quote: | | I do wonder if it's intentional that the staff gives +2 Parry though. That seems a bit much. |
I realized you could already get the same benefit through a parrying weapon and light shield, so I didn't see the harm in giving the staff a boost. It makes the staff ideal defensive equipment for casters, which seems appropriate, and it makes staff-fighters surprisingly viable, but they still usually come out behind polearm-fighters.
| Dracones wrote: | The money system doesn't really appeal to me...
I've seen the casting penalty system in Marchlands and.... I don't like it. |
Yeah, these things are a matter of taste. I absolutely understand where you're coming from, especially concerning the power system (although the chance of casting a 3d6 Blast would be 37%, not 25%). |
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Zadmar
Heroic
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 1381
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Soulliard wrote: | | Construct and Undead are very powerful, although they're balanced a bit by making it more difficult to heal the character. |
Thematically, most undead have other ways of healing themselves (such as vampires drinking blood). But even as it stands, if Undead were a race, I'd probably stat it out as follows:
+6: Ignore wound penalties (triple Nerves of Steel)
+4: +2 Toughness
+2: +2 recover from Shaken (Combat Reflexes)
+2: Immunities (disease, poison, most fatigue, sleep, etc)
-2: Doesn't benefit from the Healing skill or power.
-2: Weaknesses.
So that'd be a +10 race, worth about 5 Edges. I like the idea of supernatural Edges, but for something that strong I'd be inclined to break it down into multiple Edges.
| Soulliard wrote: | | Regeneration is also powerful, but less so than you might think. Usually, a given character leaves combat in Savage Worlds either undamaged or dead, since bennies often act more like hit points than wounds do. As a result, Regeneration doesn't come into play that often, and it does nothing to help a character survive during the course of a combat. |
A natural healing roll every 10 minutes means you're unlikely to carry over wounds between encounters, you can even choose to let yourself take wounds near the end of a combat rather than Soaking, leaving you more bennies for later in the session. Even "permanent" injuries should be healed in time for the next combat encounter.
I do like your version of Fast Healing, it's on-par with Slow Regeneration, which I already consider to be worth one Edge. But Regeneration seems very strong, even with the high Vigor requirement.
| Soulliard wrote: | | Quote: | | I do wonder if it's intentional that the staff gives +2 Parry though. That seems a bit much. |
I realized you could already get the same benefit through a parrying weapon and light shield, so I didn't see the harm in giving the staff a boost. |
The staff also gives +1" reach, which is a significant advantage combined with certain tactics and/or Edges (in fact it's like getting Lunge for free). I guess you could do the same thing with a whip and a large shield though.
| Soulliard wrote: | | It makes the staff ideal defensive equipment for casters, which seems appropriate, and it makes staff-fighters surprisingly viable, but they still usually come out behind polearm-fighters. |
Staff-fighters seem to be very closely matched with polearm-fighters, but the staff-fighter can reinvest the excess Strength into something else. |
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Soulliard
Novice
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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To be completely honest, Undead and Regeneration were the two edges I was most concerned about adding, so I don't think your points is unreasonable.
| Zadmar wrote: | | If Undead were a race... that'd be a +10 race, worth about 5 Edges. I like the idea of supernatural Edges, but for something that strong I'd be inclined to break it down into multiple Edges. |
I think you overvalue ignoring wound penalties a bit. Ignoring the first wound penalty is useful, but ignoring more than one (hopefully) doesn't come up very often. I'd say that's a +4 ability.
If I took away the +2 Toughness, that would bring it in line with Construct, and reduce it to effectively a +4 race (~2 edges). Still strong, but with all its weaknesses, I'd consider it reasonably balanced.
| Quote: | | Regeneration seems very strong, even with the high Vigor requirement. |
Regeneration is one of the strongest available edges, but from my testing, it never seemed overpowered. The player who took it enjoyed having it, but commented on how rarely it actually came into play.
Willingly taking damage to save bennies was never really a valid strategy. Since combat in Savage Worlds can turn against you so quickly, and since it's not always easy to judge how soon the next combat will arrive, the player didn't want to be any closer to death than he needed to be.
| Quote: | The staff also gives +1" reach, which is a significant advantage combined with certain tactics and/or Edges (in fact it's like getting Lunge for free).
Staff-fighters seem to be very closely matched with polearm-fighters, but the staff-fighter can reinvest the excess Strength into something else. |
I used your combat simulator (thanks for making it!) while balancing the weapons. I still consider the polearm build stronger, because the extra damage is useful against every opponent. The extra parry is only useful against melee opponents, and does no good against ranged attacks or powers. Against low-toughness melee opponents, the staff and parrying weapon are probably the best weapons, but other weapons are better in other situations.
Yes, the staff fighter can dump strength more easily, but strength is never really a dump stat for a melee attacker. |
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Zadmar
Heroic
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 1381
Location: Munich
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Soulliard wrote: | | I still consider the polearm build stronger, because the extra damage is useful against every opponent. The extra parry is only useful against melee opponents, and does no good against ranged attacks or powers. |
The extra damage isn't any benefit against a ranged opponent either. Whether you're using a staff or a polearm, your choices are the same: close the distance, or switch to a ranged weapon.
| Soulliard wrote: | | Yes, the staff fighter can dump strength more easily, but strength is never really a dump stat for a melee attacker. |
It's not a dump stat, but there may be higher priority investments for a melee fighter (such as the Fighting skill, certain Combat Edges, etc).
Either way, it's not a huge issue, the +2 Parry just stood out a bit compared to the other weapons. |
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Soulliard
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Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Zadmar wrote: | | The extra damage isn't any benefit against a ranged opponent either. Whether you're using a staff or a polearm, your choices are the same: close the distance, or switch to a ranged weapon. |
Yeah, it's a bad situation all around, but once you close the distance, the polearm is better. |
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Dracones
Seasoned
Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 146
Location: Fort Pierce, Fl
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Soulliard wrote: | Regeneration is one of the strongest available edges, but from my testing, it never seemed overpowered. The player who took it enjoyed having it, but commented on how rarely it actually came into play.
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I've noticed this in certain settings myself. In Realms of Cthulhu I had several players have to sit out for weeks or a month to go through natural healing. No magical healing was available. But in a 6 months of a weekly Deadlands campaign natural healing only came into play maybe once, and that was because the healer couldn't cast his spells on himself(bad roll on Veteran of the West edge).
A big reason Plus wouldn't see natural healing is because magical healing can be used over and over til it works. Power points in other magical settings might help with that some, but even then that's not an issue once Greater Healing becomes available.
But it's still a good edge for a player who doesn't want to have to depend on a healer. |
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Clint
Site Admin
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 16174
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Zadmar wrote: | | warrenss2 wrote: | I've been thinking of making up some new Edges, but you have done a few for me already.
Parkour
Horseman
Aggressive (Quick Tempered?)
Iron Chin (Iron Jaw?)
etc... |
I believe many of them come from other settings - Horseman is on Savagepedia and comes from Shaintar, for example. Iron Jaw works like Take the Hit in Necessary Evil, however +2 Soak seems pretty weak if you're also using Elan, I wouldn't normally use both Edges in the same setting. |
I haven't had time to check them, but I hope they aren't from other sources and reprinted in there. None of this stuff is "open source." Even the stuff on Savagepedia is owned by the creator and not reprintable without direct permission of the creator (and even then, usually only with attribution as well).
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
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Soulliard
Novice
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Some edges and hindrances were inspired by Savagepedia, but I don't recall implementing any of them in the same way. Unfocused and Tricky Fighter are pretty close (I even kept the names), but they don't work quite the same. If it's a problem, I can change their descriptions to refer to the Savagepedia. |
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Clint
Site Admin
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 16174
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Soulliard wrote: | | Some edges and hindrances were inspired by Savagepedia, but I don't recall implementing any of them in the same way. Unfocused and Tricky Fighter are pretty close (I even kept the names), but they don't work quite the same. If it's a problem, I can change their descriptions to refer to the Savagepedia. |
To be clear, it has nothing to do with Savagepedia directly as Savagepedia doesn't create content, it just collates it from other sources (primarily these forums). Savagepedia has no legal right to allow other usage nor is it the owner of the material for attribution (in fact, the original creator must approve the publication of their material on Savagepedia).
We have a special provision in the forum rules that the ownership of any material posted here belongs to the original creator, so if it's posted on Savagepedia and noted as sourced from here (where it also notes the creator), then that person is the one to contact initially for approval to reprint and whom to list in the credits for attribution if allowed.
Again, I haven't checked it personally; just putting it out there to be sure no copyright issues exist and that any fans who created material that might have been used have their rights protected and most likely just get the attribution they deserve.
Like I said, Savagepedia should list the origin of any material on it, so it should be fairly easy to find the person who made it and ask them.
Once more if it's even an issue to begin with.
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
www.peginc.com |
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