Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

More Die Steps and Irregular Dice

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PeteAtoms
Novice


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:19 pm    Post subject: More Die Steps and Irregular Dice Reply with quote

Let's assume that using a calculator or program to generate random numbers is fine (save money on buying dice).

How would the gameplay/mechanics of the system be affected if we could use any dX roll? So it would be possible to have a d5 or a d11 for traits/skills.

I can see it having an effect on advancement (the costs of increasing skills and traits) but can those costs be readjusted somehow? Will it balance or no?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kreider204
Heroic


Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 1723

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could still allow the same advance rates, but also allow to split points between traits. For example, you could still spend one skill point to raise a trait from d4 to d6, or you could split it and raise two d4 to d5.

I do occasionally wish for a more fine-grained system, especially when I want to give very small bonuses to skills (minor magic items, etc.), so it would certainly be an interesting system.
_________________
"It only takes an extra second to be courteous."
- Constable Benton Fraser
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peanuts
Novice


Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem like you could just double the amount of skill points and attribute points and keep everything generally as is, but I don't know how badly (or if at all) it would mess up the maths. You wouldn't even need dice roller programs necessarily. I think a d9 is the only dice between 2 & 12 I haven't seen some variety of oddly shaped/numbered dice for (Even seen a d7 before). I would kind of like a bit more granularity to the system, but it is slipping away from FFF a bit adding in all those odd dice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Magnus
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Avalon (www.avalon.dk)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peanuts wrote:
(snip)I would kind of like a bit more granularity to the system, but it is slipping away from FFF a bit adding in all those odd dice.

That's my main concern with it as well.

I once played a French game* that had dice from d2, d3, d4, etc. all the way through to d20 (IIRC) - and the problem was that it was a little tedious having to roll a d16 by rolling a d6 (first to get x1 or x2 multiplier) and then a d8. Now that's not that hard, but when you had to roll a d16+ a d9 + a d3 etc. all at once, the game ground to a halt.

If you could get a good handful of real dice for each step of increase I think it would be a good way to add granularity.

*Shadow Musketeers - Alien prison ship lands in renaissance France... Sort of MIB meets 3 musketeers. If only Savage Worlds had existed when I first saw it.
_________________
Garden of Athena
Book 1: Dogs of Hades
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ValhallaGH
Legendary


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 6323

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kreider204 wrote:
I do occasionally wish for a more fine-grained system, especially when I want to give very small bonuses to skills (minor magic items, etc.), so it would certainly be an interesting system.

Why not just give them penalty reductions for said "minor magic items"?
"These eyes of the eagle are amazing! You say they just reduce Notice penalties by 2? Who knew it would make such a difference!"
Minor, in that it can't provide a real bonus, but useful in that it removes penalties. It's my preferred method of "minor" helpful item design.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
77IM
Heroic


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 1591
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main dice I would want are d14, d16, d18, d20, d22, etc. etc. etc. Because rolling, say, d12+8 really kind of defeats the purpose of using a step-die system in the first place. Most of these dice do exist and can be purchased, but those d12+ rolls don't come up often enough to justify it (which is probably why Savage Worlds doesn't use them; everybody has d4-d12 but "go buy a d14-d24 before you can play" doesn't sound very FFF).

-- 77IM
_________________
Stuff I made: Arcane Abilities Talent Edge Savage Fading Suns Savage Wuxia!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cryonic
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: More Die Steps and Irregular Dice Reply with quote

PeteAtoms wrote:
Let's assume that using a calculator or program to generate random numbers is fine (save money on buying dice).

How would the gameplay/mechanics of the system be affected if we could use any dX roll? So it would be possible to have a d5 or a d11 for traits/skills.

I can see it having an effect on advancement (the costs of increasing skills and traits) but can those costs be readjusted somehow? Will it balance or no?


If you have a random die roller, then why bother with any odd types. Just switch to real number percentile... rand(x)*100 >= Y where Y is any real number between 0 and 100.0000000
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylon
Seasoned


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've toyed with this idea myself. It may seem attractive to add a d3, d5, d7, d9, d11 all to add a bit more granularity, but at 16 advances before legendary it doesn't seem too necessary.

I do like the concept of adding a d14, d16, etc instead of the d12+1 and d12+2 edges though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slugsabi
Seasoned


Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mylon wrote:
I've toyed with this idea myself. It may seem attractive to add a d3, d5, d7, d9, d11 all to add a bit more granularity, but at 16 advances before legendary it doesn't seem too necessary.

I do like the concept of adding a d14, d16, etc instead of the d12+1 and d12+2 edges though.


No need to re-invent the wheel there chap, creativity will always provide a solution. I don't know a player who doesn't love the actual rolling of dice, having favourites too.

So, a solution is:

D14 = d12 + d4/2 with the latter only counting if the former aces, whereas the roll only aces if the roll 12 (d12) and the d4 rolls a 3 or 4.

D16 = d12 + d4; an ace being only on a 12+4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylon
Seasoned


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't quite work, Slugsabi. D12 + d4 is going to make a result of 1 impossible. No more being shaken on spellcasting or hitting innocent bystanders when shooting! Even working around that, there's a slight curve added to what would otherwise be a flat roll. Oh, and addition is now thrown into the mix. If by some weird chance a group of extras have a d14 roll, resolving all of their rolls at once is a bit weird. d14s, d16s, and d18s do exist. And if using a computer then the matter is irrelevant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slugsabi
Seasoned


Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair point on the bell curve and GM rolls and as you say those die exsist. Maybe my player base just aren't lazy Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robert4818
Heroic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mylon wrote:
That doesn't quite work, Slugsabi. D12 + d4 is going to make a result of 1 impossible. No more being shaken on spellcasting or hitting innocent bystanders when shooting! Even working around that, there's a slight curve added to what would otherwise be a flat roll. Oh, and addition is now thrown into the mix. If by some weird chance a group of extras have a d14 roll, resolving all of their rolls at once is a bit weird. d14s, d16s, and d18s do exist. And if using a computer then the matter is irrelevant.


No he's saying:

Roll a d12, if the d12 hits ace, roll the D4. Add it to the result. It does make a roll of 12 impossible though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylon
Seasoned


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, what? If my d12 lands on 12, I'd rather reroll the d12 than a d4!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robert4818
Heroic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mylon wrote:
Wait, what? If my d12 lands on 12, I'd rather reroll the d12 than a d4!


Ok. Here's a D12 + D4 Scenario.

Roll D12, if 12, Roll a 4. Add the two. If D4 = 4, roll D12.

etc.

The d4 is basically the 13-16 on the dice if you had a 16 sided die.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
newForumNewName
Heroic


Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 1799
Location: Broomfield, CO

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robert4818 wrote:
Mylon wrote:
Wait, what? If my d12 lands on 12, I'd rather reroll the d12 than a d4!


Ok. Here's a D12 + D4 Scenario.

Roll D12, if 12, Roll a 4. Add the two. If D4 = 4, roll D12.

etc.

The d4 is basically the 13-16 on the dice if you had a 16 sided die.

Except that the odds aren't identical for 1-12 + 1-4 and 1-16. It's a nice thought, but it's not the same as having a d16.
_________________
"I had a whole bunch of advice for you but got ninja'd by newForumNewName. I'd just do what he says." -- 77IM

"While nFNN could be less of a jerk about how he says what he says, what he says is essentially correct." -- ValhallaGH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
robert4818
Heroic


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1063

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newForumNewName wrote:
robert4818 wrote:
Mylon wrote:
Wait, what? If my d12 lands on 12, I'd rather reroll the d12 than a d4!


Ok. Here's a D12 + D4 Scenario.

Roll D12, if 12, Roll a 4. Add the two. If D4 = 4, roll D12.

etc.

The d4 is basically the 13-16 on the dice if you had a 16 sided die.

Except that the odds aren't identical for 1-12 + 1-4 and 1-16. It's a nice thought, but it's not the same as having a d16.



Your right. Smile I'm just clarifying the misconceptions about what was being thrown out as an alternative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slugsabi
Seasoned


Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, as I said, technically you could roll it as I described although yea it means the 12 disappears into a void and the bell curve is sorta borked too.

Soooo... That means I was wrong, mark it on the calendar Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylon
Seasoned


Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda a side point, but I've been wanting to develop a computer RPG that runs entirely based on 1dX versus a TN of 1dY, where X is a composite score based on skill, circumstance factors, etc. Thus even an expert could occasionally roll low and fail a task. Likewise even a novice could have a TN roll low and succeed. This would replace exploding dice and ought to generate a nice S curve.

Diablo 2 actually used a very similar method for attack rating. But with the way everything ramped up and modifiers got piled on, I can't be sure it was entirely relevant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum