Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ritual/Enchanting Idea

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Ritual/Enchanting Idea Reply with quote

I wanted to give players the ability to create permanent magical effects like undead minions or magical items. It kind of bugs me that necromancer NPC's can create permanent undead, but players can't. I also liked the idea of the party mage laying a magical trap.

This is my idea:
In order to create a permanent magical effect you have to perform a ritual, which takes a certain amount of time. You then ''invest'' PP into the spell, which you only get back when the effect is destroyed somehow. For instance, your zombie minion is killed.

Creating undead is a bit different from standard enchanting. First you have to capture a soul. This is done by, after killing a creature, making an opposed spirit roll. This will become a series of five rolls, and whomever has the most successes is the victor. If you win you have enslaved the soul. A soul must be stored in a gem of some sort. preferably black opal.

You must then perform an imbuing ritual on a corpse. This takes 2d6 days and costs an amount of permanent PP depending on the created undead. You can only control a number of souls equal to your Spirit die type, including imbued souls. The created undead is completely loyal to you.

You can also cast an imbuing ritual on an item, but usually this does not use a soul. All you do is store permanent PP in the item, giving the item magical properties. A Heroic rank character may imbue a weapon with the soul of an intelligent creature in order to create an intelligent relic, as described in the FC.

Rituals may also be used to permanently have a spell affect a target area, like an obscure spell with an endless duration. You effectively cast the spell but do not get back your PP until the spell is broken. You could also create an enchantment which goes of when triggered, like a bolt attacking anyone who opens a treasure chest. You must then store a number of PP in the ritual to cast the spell. For instance, you could imbue a cave with the bolt power and 10 PP. The enchantment will then cast bolt any time the conditions are met until it doesn't have any PP left. It's PP regenerates normally.

Rituals and weapon enchantments require a focus of some kind. This is usually a rune drawn on a wall or an object. This mark may be drawn, but may exist out of a pattern of objects or be woven into a curtain, as long as it's a mark. Breaking this mark causes the imbued PP to return to their original master. Marks can be detected with detect/conceal arcana, or recognized with a knowledge(arcana) roll.

Rituals of this type can also be powered by magical spirits. These spirits have innate PP, so if they are imbued into a ritual the ritual will use the spirit's PP. Doing this is dangerous, however, as an escaped spirit is perfectly capable of taking revenge on mortal wizards. Spirits can be captured in the same way as souls are captured.

Sorry for the long post, I hope you can endure it.

Please give me some advice on whether this is balanced or not. If it's important I'm planning on using it in a tribal campaign thing with awakened dark gods and jungle monsters. I wanted to up the action a bit and give players a chance to defend their tribes.

-the geeklord
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kreider204
Heroic


Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 1722

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first glance, I like it. Let me ponder a bit, and I'll try to give more serious feedback this evening.
_________________
"It only takes an extra second to be courteous."
- Constable Benton Fraser
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, looking forward to it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kreider204
Heroic


Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 1722

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, some thoughts; not much, though - it looks good. I didn't want to mess with the quote tags, so I just used quote marks around the bits of your post, and posted my thoughts in between.

“In order to create a permanent magical effect you have to perform a ritual, which takes a certain amount of time. You then ''invest'' PP into the spell, which you only get back when the effect is destroyed somehow. For instance, your zombie minion is killed.”

This reminds me of AB: Alchemy in the Fantasy Companion, where PP are put into potions and regained after the potion is used. I think that works just fine, as long as you feel that the spellcasters will have enough PPs to create all the undead they need. Otherwise, you might allow the ritual to reduce the usual PP cost, perhaps by requiring some other cost (e.g., expensive ingredients that the PC has to spend his valuable gold pieces on … ).

“Creating undead is a bit different from standard enchanting. First you have to capture a soul. This is done by, after killing a creature, making an opposed spirit roll. This will become a series of five rolls, and whomever has the most successes is the victor. If you win you have enslaved the soul. A soul must be stored in a gem of some sort. preferably black opal.”

I like that quite a bit. Alternatively, you might invent a new spell that the caster can use for the trapping, that may or may not still require the opposed spirit roll.

“You must then perform an imbuing ritual on a corpse. This takes 2d6 days and costs an amount of permanent PP depending on the created undead. You can only control a number of souls equal to your Spirit die type, including imbued souls.”

I’m not sure I’m following that last sentence – can you clarify for me?

“You can also cast an imbuing ritual on an item, but usually this does not use a soul. All you do is store permanent PP in the item, giving the item magical properties. A Heroic rank character may imbue a weapon with the soul of an intelligent creature in order to create an intelligent relic, as described in the FC.”

Good stuff, again much like Alchemy in the FC.

“Rituals may also be used to permanently have a spell affect a target area, like an obscure spell with an endless duration. You effectively cast the spell but do not get back your PP until the spell is broken. You could also create an enchantment which goes of when triggered, like a bolt attacking anyone who opens a treasure chest. You must then store a number of PP in the ritual to cast the spell. For instance, you could imbue a cave with the bolt power and 10 PP. The enchantment will then cast bolt any time the conditions are met until it doesn't have any PP left. It's PP regenerates normally.”

The item regains the PP, or the PP return to the caster?

“Rituals and weapon enchantments require a focus of some kind. This is usually a rune drawn on a wall or an object. This mark may be drawn, but may exist out of a pattern of objects or be woven into a curtain, as long as it's a mark. Breaking this mark causes the imbued PP to return to their original master. Marks can be detected with detect/conceal arcana, or recognized with a knowledge(arcana) roll.”

Good stuff.

“Rituals of this type can also be powered by magical spirits. These spirits have innate PP, so if they are imbued into a ritual the ritual will use the spirit's PP. Doing this is dangerous, however, as an escaped spirit is perfectly capable of taking revenge on mortal wizards. Spirits can be captured in the same way as souls are captured.”

Double-plus like! Again, you might invent some new spells for the capturing process.

“Please give me some advice on whether this is balanced or not.”

I don’t see any obvious balance issues, though it always depends on the exact setting, of course.

Good work!
_________________
"It only takes an extra second to be courteous."
- Constable Benton Fraser
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GranFalloon
Veteran


Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 684

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it works pretty well. I do think that a lot of players would avoid these rituals because of the "permanent" loss of PP. Imbuing a cave with Bolt traps is a pretty cool idea if you suspect it will be intruded upon in the next few days and you have to be away, but losing all those PP for months or years? Ouch.

I swear I'm not trying to create more work for you, but perhaps there could be a couple of tiers of ritual. Imbuing the cave for a few days or weeks could require a ritual of an hour or so, and sets those PP aside. A wizard who wants to make the ritual permanent, to last even after his death, would perform a ritual lasting several days, probably requiring multiple spellcasting and fatigue checks.

In the case of a Necromancer, how about this:
Most undead are simply minions. The corpse is animated by the necromancer's magical energy. It has no soul, very little intelligence, and a vicious, hateful nature. It will obey the necromancer to the best of its ability, but will not make complex decisions. The ritual is fairly simple, and requires the Necromancer to Invest his PP in the minion. These PP will be released when the minion is destroyed.

More ambitious Necromancers may try a more dangerous path. The Necromancer may wish to reanimate a more powerful corpse (probably a Wild Card) by binding a soul into the body. Often the soul of the reanimated corpse is used, but some Necromancers bind a demon or ghost into a body. The animated Undead is a Wild Card and is fully intelligent (maybe not to bright if it was an ogre chief or something), and for the most part possesses free will. The Necromancer may command the Undead, but his control is not complete. The creature may be able to break free, which can be perilous for the creator, depending on the relationship. Most human souls and more natural spirits hate being bound in this manner, and may well attack the creator. Demons and evil spirits are often willing, but are very untrustworthy and may turn on the Necromancer if he becomes too bossy. A human soul that was willingly reanimated will usually be trustworthy, but being reanimated leaves a stain on the soul over time, and free-willed undead tend to go a bit mad.

Honestly, I'd probably take each ritual on a case-by-case basis, unless it was something my characters were regularly doing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Kreider
Thanks for the cool idea. A wizard may create a time limit on a ritual during creation. Also, particularly powerful rituals will sustain a link with the caster's soul even after death, meaning the effect is truly permanent unless destroyed. This requires three (casting skill) rolls at -2. At least two of those rolls have to be a success.
In answer to your question, I meant that you may only store a certain amount of souls at one time. You can't controll 50 souls, no matter how many opals you have. Imbued souls are souls which you bound to a certain object or location. So you can't have 50 undead minions.
Also, imbueing a ritual with PP means it keeps the PP. The PP doesn't return to the caster unless the ritual is broken. The item or ritual regains the PP spent at the usual rate.
You often suggest making spells for it, but that would mean you would have to purchase a lot more spells to be able to create this stuff. I think any decent caster ought to be able to capture a soul, or enter spirit combat with a spirit.
I have gotten many ideas from the Runequest RPG, like spirit combat, which I am going to try to make more fun. It will become an alternative to combat used against spiritual beings.

Gotta go, I'll have more to say later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@GranFalloon
My point with the souls is that it is the animated spark of life. A soul is the life energy of a being. Without giving using a soul all your doing is energizing a mass of biological substance. The point is that you transform a soul, ''cleaning it out'', turning it into energy which grants life.

You could indeed also give an undead being intelligence. You get the same undead, but with the fighting skills of the soul's previous owner. In game terms, the undead created retains all the skills and edges of the soul's previous owner. This is dangerous however, as you are giving the soul a link to it's memory and personality, and eventually even their own free will.

Also, I've worked out a format for true permanent efects, which I'll call major rituals for the time being. In order to complete this ritual you have to make a number of (casting skill) rolls equal to the difficulty. For the easiest you have to roll 3 times, for the hardest 7 times. Each failed roll gives a level of fatigue, and in order for the ritual to succeed you have to make more than half the rolls. Being incapacitated during the ritual means it goes horribly wrong (in the sentient undead ritual the undead wakes up and attacks you, dying off as soon as you are dead). Major rituals always require certain ingredients to complete them. These ingredients must be appropriate for the ritual(a lich's head for the sentient undead ritual), and require the party to either buy it for a ridiculous sum of money, which they have to acquire, or defeat the ridiculously powerful monster guarding it(kill the lich for it's head).

I've also thought up this ritual.

ritual of seperation
This ritual seperates your spirit from your body. This requires a pentagram and incense candles. A focus related to the spirit world grants a +1 to the (casting skill) roll. On a succes you become an ethereal version of yourself, but with only half your PP. On a raise you have all your precious PP. You may move around in this form as long as you wish, but remember that your body is helpless and can easily be disposed of by baddies. On return to your body you are fatigued for 1 hour and have 10 less power points. In spirit form you can see souls and energy. With a notice roll you can see if someone has magical skill, is cursed, is a demon, is haunted, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, newest idea.

Any ritual requires spell components. These are items which help direct, focus, and link the magic. Gems are especially handy as spell components, as they store magic easily. I've created a list of what foci you would need for specific types of rituals, both as a guideline for myself and for you if you wish to create your own, custom rituals.

Black Opals can hold and focus spiritual entities. They are used for storing, holding, capturing, and binding spiritual entities.

Rubies gather energy which is transferred as heat, electricity, gravity, light and other energies. This includes negating or absorbing such energies.

Topazes convey or control instinct, growth and other such things. They influence plants and animals, like warding of wolves or making specific plants grow unnaturally large.

Emeralds drain or disrupt energy flows. This include life energy and magic, but not kinetic energy or heat. They can drain your will, life, energy, or stress. They can also drive you mad.

Amethysts manipulate space and movement. They can make something bigger on the inside, increase object velocity or move you instantly.

Sapphires affect perception and opinion. They can make you look nice, create an illusion or seriously confuse some poor guy.

Gold, silver, dragon blood and obsidian all affect the boundaries of an area affected by magic. They also conduct magic and focus it in certain ways. Excellent pentagram material.

Rituals also need a pentagram. This allows the caster to focus his energies and create a magical equilibrium of sorts. The different points cause the magic energy to unify and focus itself. The pentagram is like the programming of a computer program. It directs the magic and guides it through the right processes. It is often created with chalk or tribal paint, or even a mix of magic herbs.

please vocalize(or type) your opinions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wikiget
Novice


Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power Edge

Contingency
Requirements: Seasoned, AB(Magic), Magic d10
The mage has learned to create a condition to his spells. The caster may spend 2 extra power points to add a simple contingent to the spells activation (ex. wait 1 min or the next time that door opens). The roll for the spell is conducted when the spell activates.
When this occurs the mage must select the spells source. The source can be any solid object that can potentially succeed (within range, able to see target, etc.).
_________________
Player Rules to Live By
Rule 0 - GM Fiat: The GM is always right.
Rule 1 - Never give the GM Ideas.
Rule 2 - Never Assume.
Rule 3 - Everything is a trap.
Rule 4 - Never trust a GMs generosity, but never point it out.
Rule 5 - GMs can be bought.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea. My idea was that the source of the spell would be the place where the spell components where placed. For instance, if you need three rubies for an attack spell, the source of the spell would be the location of the three rubies.

Also, I was thinking of making rituals more powerful, and allowing them to cast more powerful versions of certain spells or achieve effects which you could not achieve with spells. I'm kind of basing these rituals on a mix of D&D and Runequest, translated into SW. Please don't hate my ideas just because they where inspired (partially) by D&D.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought up a list of rituals which can be used. Please give your opinion about over-/underpowered rituals or the ritual mechanics, or the spell components idea.

mechanic
Casting a ritual requires you to gather the spell components, and draw a pentagram on the floor. This can be done with chalk, paint, colored stone, pizza, anything that can form a pentagram shape(I wouldn't recommend the pizza). You then make a (casting skill) roll at -2. Success means the ritual was successfully cast, but failure causes a level of fatigue.

Rituals with permanent effects require the permanent investing of PP and more costly spell components. These rituals cause a level of fatigue even on a success. A raise means you take no fatigue. A failure means you are exhausted. The advantage of these rituals is that the effect will persist until the spell components are removed or destroyed. Destroying the pentagram also has this effect.

Above even permanent rituals are great rituals. These require vast amounts of PP and cannot be completed by any single character, regardless of rank. Instead they require groups of powerful mages to combine their powers. They often also require great artifacts, temples, trophies of multiple gargantuan monsters, and other such things as spell components. They are extremely powerful, however, having enough power to destroy cities and summon armies. These require a combined (casting skill) roll. The TN is 20. The sheer amount of PP invested requires the use of many sacrifices, the investing of tens of elemental spirits, or draining power from entire cities of willing people(knocking them out, but not killing them). Needless to say great rituals are rare and those that hold knowledge of a great ritual will not part with it for mere gold and jewelry.


rituals

Ritual of Separation
spell components: incense candles, a black opal figurine or charm.
This ritual separates your spirit from your body without killing you. It requires 1d3 hours of absolute concentration and a (casting skill) roll. In spirit form, you are ethereal and cannot affect the physical world. You also have a flight pace equal to your spirit die type. Also, you can now see ghosts, magic, souls, demons and the border between the spirit world and the physical world. Your body cannot survive for long without a spirit inside, and for every hour you are outside your body you gain a fatigue level. Also, while you no longer inhabit your body, some other spirit might decide to take it.

Warding Ritual
Spell components: a line of boundary material, three amethysts.
This ritual creates a physical barrier. To break through this barrier a creature must score a raise on a Strength roll opposed by your Spirit or be pushed backwards two squares. The barrier is the size of a MBT and lasts one day(two on a raise). This ritual takes 1d3 hours. You may make the area affected a LBT, but this inflicts a -2 penalty on the original roll and makes the ritual cost 4 PP(nonpermanent). At ritual creation you may designate a certain amount of people allowed through the barrier, or which species are blocked. Spiritual entities are unaffected by this barrier as it is a physical effect. Projectiles roll 1/2 their damage to get through the barrier.

Harvest Ritual
Spell components: staff with two topazes and a herbal mix
This spell causes 1/2 a square mile of crops to flourish and grow. It basically guarantees a single good harvest. A raise on the roll causes the harvest to be excellent, and more than enough to feed the nearby villages, or even a whole city. In order for the ritual to work the caster must place the staff at the centre of the area to be affected, and chant for 2d10 minutes. Then the staff must remain in the ground for a full day, in which the caster must meditate and fast.

Summoning Ritual
Spell Components: boundary material, 3 amethysts, 2 black opals
This ritual requires the caster to chant for 1d3 hours. The boundary material must create a circle in front of the pentagram. The rubies are arranged on the points of the pentagram. At the end of the ritual You must make a (casting skill) roll. If successful, a demon, angel, or other magical creature appears(casters choice which). That creature cannot move outside the circle. The caster may reason with this creature, or attempt to control it by making three opposed spirit rolls. Succeeding at at least two of those rolls means the creature must obey one command as given by the caster. After 19 days the creature will be free from this command. Sending a summoned creature back requires an opposed Spirit roll at +2 while it is within the circle. The caster may allow the creature to leave the circle, or the creature may roll strength at -2 opposed by the caster's Spirit to break free. Failing the summoning roll means the caster is fatigued. Botching the roll means the creature is summoned, but not bound to the circle.[/b]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kakaze
Seasoned


Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thought:

You might be able to run permanent undead as hirelings. The costs associated with paying for them would be spent on ingredients and time maintaining the spell instead of actual payment. I'm not sure if there is a standard cost for hirelings, but I think its about $20 a week for the average soldier in fantasy lands.

You might consider upping the cost a bit because you don't have to worry about loyalty and the Undead edge is pretty powerful and have either the summon ally or zombie power be required to get them.
_________________
Proud creator of Savage Swarm, a game about Giant Ants.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xxlgeeklord
Seasoned


Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that works well in game terms, but with the rituals you can not only create a zombie or a skeleton. You can put together multiple body parts from both humans and animals to form your own horrible creations, or build a body out of steel for your minions. All you need is enough resources and magic.

And I just like the idea of not only creating minions, but any magical effect you want permanently with rituals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW Home-brew Settings & Conversions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum