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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1044
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 Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: [Savage Mojo] Mixing Suzerain with other settings. |
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Just picked up the new Deluxe edition of Suzerain. I have to say that I like it. However, I'm disappointed that it didn't include rules for integrating other published (non-mojo) settings into the Suzerain paradigm.
For example, lets imagine that I want to Suzerain up Hellfrost, Deadlands, Slipstream, and Pirates of the Spanish Main.
From a conceptual standpoint, I could play all 4 games in the "Heroic" Suzerain paradigm. I could have 3 realms, Hellfrost, Slipstream, Earth, with Deadlands and POTSM being two different time periods within the earth. (Given that the reckoning didn't start until after the POTSM time frame.) If I later wanted to add Daring Tales of Adventure, Weird War II, or Space 1889 to the mix, I'd (as written) have to wait until Demi-God as those would represent the "what-if's" of earth.
The question arises though, how do I actually mix these settings (rules-wise) to match with the Suzerain Paradigm?
-Slipstream has Psionics, which from a top-level reading doesn't mesh with the 4 pulse paths in Suzerain.
-Space 1889 is a setting with no "magic" at all. (weird science excepted).
-Deadlands requires Guts, many of the other settings do not...how does suzerain handle this?
-Hellfrost has a PP-less system, how would pulse interact with that?
I guess what I'm saying is I'd like a guide from Savage Mojo that covers "Suzerain-ing" other settings for use in the Suzerain multi-verse. |
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Wolfson
Seasoned
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 280
Location: In front of my computer, madly typing...
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: [Savage Mojo] Mixing Suzerain with other settings. |
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| robert4818 wrote: | | I guess what I'm saying is I'd like a guide from Savage Mojo that covers "Suzerain-ing" other settings for use in the Suzerain multi-verse. |
I'll see what we can do about that. 
In the meantime, I can offer a few suggestions. First of all, since Suzerain is something of its own setting, one should be prepared to find a 'middle ground' for some of those extraneous settings.
For example, settings like Space 1889 have no integral magic, so no one from that Realm would begin with magic, but that wouldn't prevent them from acquiring it later on and elsewhere. However, simply eliminating magic in the setting would seriously cripple characters from other Realms who may rely on magic - so it might be better to simply allow its use within the Realm by characters who are Heroic Rank or better. In the end, though, it would be the GM's call.
We chose not to make Guts a setting-specific skill for Suzerain because most characters in the settings are on their way to godhood (or some equivalent)... It seemed counter-intuitive to require Guts checks. Since you can accomplish the same thing with Spirit rolls, I'd simply call for those in a setting like Deadlands. In the end, that's what happens in Suzerain when characters encounter Fear-inducing creatures, and the results of failure amount to the same thing.
Psionics can be a little trickier - when I first encountered Suzerain, I noticed it as well, but the four core Pulse Paths are almost always sufficient. We will have a setting in the not-too-distant future that has Psionics after a fashion... But for the time being you can assume that the Gifted Pulse Path - while usually associated with wizardry - is essentially the same thing: the ability to manipulate reality by force of mental will.
I haven't looked at Hellfrost in a while (although I should refresh my memory), so I'm on somewhat shaky ground on that count. However, most PP-less systems still look to the Power Point costs as a basis for casting the Power. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to find the basis for conversion.
Like I said, I'll see what we can do about creating a proper 'conversion guide'... I think it would be a great idea - I just need to find out about the practicalities (mostly making sure we aren't stepping on other licensees or licensing agreements by doing so).
Thanks for the suggestion, and we'll keep you posted. 
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1044
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: [Savage Mojo] Mixing Suzerain with other settings. |
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| Wolfson wrote: | | robert4818 wrote: | | I guess what I'm saying is I'd like a guide from Savage Mojo that covers "Suzerain-ing" other settings for use in the Suzerain multi-verse. |
I'll see what we can do about that.
In the meantime, I can offer a few suggestions. First of all, since Suzerain is something of its own setting, one should be prepared to find a 'middle ground' for some of those extraneous settings.
For example, settings like Space 1889 have no integral magic, so no one from that Realm would begin with magic, but that wouldn't prevent them from acquiring it later on and elsewhere. However, simply eliminating magic in the setting would seriously cripple characters from other Realms who may rely on magic - so it might be better to simply allow its use within the Realm by characters who are Heroic Rank or better. In the end, though, it would be the GM's call.
We chose not to make Guts a setting-specific skill for Suzerain because most characters in the settings are on their way to godhood (or some equivalent)... It seemed counter-intuitive to require Guts checks. Since you can accomplish the same thing with Spirit rolls, I'd simply call for those in a setting like Deadlands. In the end, that's what happens in Suzerain when characters encounter Fear-inducing creatures, and the results of failure amount to the same thing.
Psionics can be a little trickier - when I first encountered Suzerain, I noticed it as well, but the four core Pulse Paths are almost always sufficient. We will have a setting in the not-too-distant future that has Psionics after a fashion... But for the time being you can assume that the Gifted Pulse Path - while usually associated with wizardry - is essentially the same thing: the ability to manipulate reality by force of mental will.
I haven't looked at Hellfrost in a while (although I should refresh my memory), so I'm on somewhat shaky ground on that count. However, most PP-less systems still look to the Power Point costs as a basis for casting the Power. I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to find the basis for conversion.
Like I said, I'll see what we can do about creating a proper 'conversion guide'... I think it would be a great idea - I just need to find out about the practicalities (mostly making sure we aren't stepping on other licensees or licensing agreements by doing so).
Thanks for the suggestion, and we'll keep you posted. |
Thanks, and no worries.
I brought up specific settings to just talk about the scope of the problem. I obviously don't think a "Hellfrost - Suzerain" conversion guide would be a great idea, but something much more generic would be great.
When I look at Suzerain, I see it as a Meta-Setting more than a setting. Something to be tossed on top of other settings (Such as you've done with your Noir Knights, Caldaron settings, etc.) But I would find it even more useful if it came with the tools that would allow me to take my existing savage settings and mix them with suzerain. |
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Wolfson
Seasoned
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 280
Location: In front of my computer, madly typing...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: Re: [Savage Mojo] Mixing Suzerain with other settings. |
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I kind of figured you were pulling random settings out of the hat by way of example - mostly I was trying to illustrate how I'd begin approaching the problem.
And don't discount a Suzerain/Hellfrost crossover... 
| robert4818 wrote: | | When I look at Suzerain, I see it as a Meta-Setting more than a setting. |
Actually, it is in fact its own setting - something I didn't realize until I was working on my second setting book. There is actually a thread of commonality and continuity that goes through all those little sub-settings.
That said, I agree that - as a meta-setting - it has the potential to work very well. I've run a message by some of the other Powers That Be to see what might be done to help... You aren't the first person to wonder about mixing Suzerain with other published Savage Worlds material - just the first to suggest our putting out some sort of conversion guide. Seems like kind of a "duh" thing, but sometimes we get so busy with other stuff that we miss what might seem to be the obvious.
If nothing else, I'll see if we can't come up with some general "Rules of Thumb" to help the would-be GM tweak other settings for use with Suzerain or vice versa. But personally, I'd like to put out specific data for as many published settings as possible.
Just waiting to hear back from people. 
If you'd be happy with a generic thing, it's probably more easily doable... I think I just worry that we wouldn't cover all the bases that way. Hmmm... But now you've got the gears in my head spinning.
I'm pretty sure we'll get you something to work with. 
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Its definitely got me excited.
A generic conversion guide would be a good thing to have regardless of specific conversions, simply due to the amount of setting conversions, home-made settings, etc. that have come out in relation to SW. |
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Wolfson
Seasoned
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Posts: 280
Location: In front of my computer, madly typing...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, I just got word back from MMK (the man at the top of the Savage Mojo pecking order), and he agrees this would be worth putting the effort into - so I'd say we're on.
At this point, I'll need to contact the other licensees and see who wants (or is willing) to be specifically mentioned, and then we'll start compiling all those specialized tweaks for other settings - in the end we'll likely have some specific conversions, as well as some more generalized notes to handle the miscellany.
And I'll by sure to let you know as things develop. Again, thanks for the suggestion!
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Curtis and Sarah Lyon
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robert4818
Heroic
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 1044
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfson wrote: | Well, I just got word back from MMK (the man at the top of the Savage Mojo pecking order), and he agrees this would be worth putting the effort into - so I'd say we're on.
At this point, I'll need to contact the other licensees and see who wants (or is willing) to be specifically mentioned, and then we'll start compiling all those specialized tweaks for other settings - in the end we'll likely have some specific conversions, as well as some more generalized notes to handle the miscellany.
And I'll by sure to let you know as things develop. Again, thanks for the suggestion! |
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TheGrayFox
Novice
Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Posts: 5
Location: Saskatoon, SK CANADA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| This excites me, as well (especially re: Hellfrost). Keeping tabs... |
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chitownroy
Seasoned
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 481
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Definitely some great news. |
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