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[classic] Looking for clarification on damaging Armor

 
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:38 am    Post subject: [classic] Looking for clarification on damaging Armor Reply with quote

Wow, been posting a lot of questions lately. Well, here's another one. What exactly is the sequence for damaging armor, especially for Junkers. The way my group is playing:

1) AV reduces die types accordingly
2) Damage is reduced by the durability of the armor in that area, reducing Armor accordingly by durability steps
3) If the armor is destroyed (which happens frequently), the remaining damage goes to the body part.

I'm fairly certain that's not quite right, but I don't know what "right" is. How are you supposed to handle the difference between attacking the person and attacking the armor? How does the damage sequence work when attacking an armored person? As before, I'm playing a Junker, so this is moderately important to my character's function (especially now that he's getting close to having his full power-set for the big projects)
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Templar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you made a bit of a mistake but I think I can help. 1 is correct, as for the second part, I don't bother with that aspect, though if you wish to I can give you a quick crash course on it and thus the third would be somewhat irrelevent.

If you wanted to use the second (I don't think armor normally works that way, but sake of argument) you would use the same rules for damaging vehicles. Take the damage done to the person in the armor after the reductions.

If the damage is from normal small arms, divide by 10, and yes if the divisions of damage produce less that 1 point of damage then no damage occurred.

Weapons that are .50 cal but less than 25mm have their damage divided by five before being applied to durability.

Heavy weapons are 25mm to 75mm in caliber as well as explosives with a burst radius of 10 or less, those have their damage to durability divided by two before being applied.

Damage done by weapons of 75mm or higher as well as damage done by explosives with a burst radius of 10 or more are done completely to the durability of the device.

If you need any clarifications, just ask, I hope this helps. Very Happy
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the rapid response, Templar. Following the Vehicle Damage rules makes a lot of sense, especially since my armor happens to have incorporated VTOL Twisted Evil
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ScooterinAB
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What my marshal did was basically follow the power armor rules in the Wasted West book. I hate this with a passion, as it makes armor completely useless. Every wound level you take reduces the AV, so a single hit will destroy your armor.

How does this differ from the full vehicle rules (aside from being more durable vs small arms)? I'm not terribly familiar with the vehicle rules, as we seldom ever have a vehicle in a game for more than background.
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Fists-of-Dorn
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Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: re Reply with quote

Vehicles receive incoming damage as explained earlier by Templar. Vehicles also have a durability rating and durability steps. For example a typical full-sized pickup has a durability of 45/9. The 45 is the durability of the vehicle, and the 9 is the number of durability points per 'durability step' (i.e. the maximum durability divided by five provides this number).
Whenever a vehicle is damaged you apply that amount against its durability rating. Damage to a vehicle doesn't inhibit its performance until it drops one, or more, durability steps. At this point critical hits and actual performance penalties begin to occur.

I can understand wanting to treat all armor the same as power armor regarding degradation. Keeping your posse poor is one tool in creating a fun atmosphere for a Hell on Earth game, but if the posse is unwilling to take the view of "Thank God that vest stopped that bullet," and are instead saying things like "Wah! Now I am going to have to get another vest somehow. Why do I even bother if it can only stop one bullet/burst/grenade/nuke/etc.," then that is not a posse where being equipment poor is going to encourage them to seek out materials to make repairs to that equipment, or replacements altogether. Considering how most vests work in that it is good for a use or two, I had considered using the degradation rules for power armor in my game. Instead I opted to avoid having players carrying multiple vests around and trying to change mid-firefight by implementing a rule of me determining when their equipment had had it.
ScooterinAB's marshal may want to go that route as at least one of his players really dislikes the power armor degradation rules.
And speaking to which, he is using the rule that the character must take a wound through the armored area, after spending fate chips, right? That's the only time power armor suffers damage. Now if the issue is that most enemies are hitting your posse so hard that you cannot avoid being damaged, or that your posse has a continuing lack of fate chips, there are problems other than the power armor rule.

-Fists.
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ScooterinAB
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya. The marshal is just sort of avoiding the topic. I brought it up one day, and he just dodged the subject. We are being hit so hard that we are always taking wounds (which is another issue entirely), so I can't say anything about the fate chip thing.

The only reason that this hasn't been a major problem yet is because there is a Junker in the posse. He keeps trying to make a buck off of it, but I suspect the marshal is keeping that down. We otherwise have no repair materials available. Ultimately, it is working out so far (as far as getting shot to pieces every few days can go), but I am very concerned with this approach in a regular game.
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Fists-of-Dorn
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Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re Reply with quote

Well, while it sucks that the Marshal won't engage in a rational discussion with his player(s) regarding his house rules, I guess that if things are somehow running smoothly with those rules in place...go with it until the crap hits the fan.

Without the caveat of "Wounds actually taken by the character in the location protected by armor 'x' reduce the armor level in that location by a like amount," body armor really is a pain for the players. At least it doesn't sound like you are having to worry about carrying capacity much, if at all. If you did, then I could certainly see most characters opting for boiled leather items and other lightweight light armors just so that they are not weighed down by heavier body armor.

I hope things improve, or at the worst remain acceptable enough to not warrant leaving the game.


-Fists.
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That weight issue is why my junker ALWAYS makes his body armor with the +1 coordination version of Super Strength, minimum. My Marshal allows it to carry itself if it has any of that power, so that 1% space is really not painful at all (not even 1% once Miniaturize kicks in).

Still, as annoying as losing tons of armor to battle damage is, the components for any given suit are pretty easy to find under most reasonable Marshals (seriously, 8 oz of SALT counts as a chemical component and Structural can be cut off of anything). This constant loss and rebuild usually means your Building spirit will level up quick (at least, relative to the other ones), and Gun will as well if you spring for Spirit Weapon. Having a rank-5 Building spirit means you can make (for example) a globular energy+spirit AV 1 shield generator for size 6 and not have to put batteries in it to be perfectly safe inside a City Buster blast crater or even a fully-irradiated Ghost Rock mine. If I need to give Gun spirit examples, read the freaking book Razz
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ScooterinAB
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PsyBomb wrote:
That weight issue is why my junker ALWAYS makes his body armor with the +1 coordination version of Super Strength, minimum. My Marshal allows it to carry itself if it has any of that power, so that 1% space is really not painful at all (not even 1% once Miniaturize kicks in).


I might be missing something, but wouldn't that just make the armor itself stronger? The wearer still needs to carry it. Of course, if you were running around in power armor built with locomotion...

Quote:
(seriously, 8 oz of SALT counts as a chemical component and Structural can be cut off of anything).


That's really amusing. I'm glad others see it that way too.
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