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[classic][junker] creating KITT from knight rider

 
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synarkhe
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Joined: 04 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: [classic][junker] creating KITT from knight rider Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I'm synarkhe, and am starting a new campaign (my first on HoE, though I have already done several on Deadlands].
So I have a lot of questions, starting with junkers.

By the way, I'm French (so excuse my lousy accent Smile.

Well, I decided to try the Junker's system, in case one of my players would play one.

So I tried to create KITT; feeling generous I gave 6d12 to my constructor staff and all the needed powers.

But when I tried to add the slots points I ended up with almost a thousand (I'll put the maths below).

So my question is : how does the junker system work for you ?
I.e : I find the armor power quite expensive comparatively of buying armor with the Rwarriors rules.

Is it me ? Have I missed something ?
Another exemple : a bus has 1715 slots, and divided by 70 (a person's slots) it can carry 24.5 people and this without anything else (even a locomotion power...). I'm pretty sure that buses of our era can transport 50 people and have engines, as well as wheels. Without any magic.

So, the maths for KITT :
I start from a sedan car : 549 slots.
It can accept four passengers so : 70*4= 280 slots
549 minus 280 = 269

Locomotion power :
suspension (off road) : 54.9 (base)+ 54.9 (offroad)= 109.8
269-109.8=158.2
powerplants : KITT is quick so : 549*35% =192.5
158.2 - 192.5 = -34.5

So for now, I have built a car that can go off road, carries four passengers and is fast. not really ITT yet.

I didn't add any commo, sensors, AI, brains, agility and armors. I just have a car... Am I doing it wrong? Should I lower the slots for some powers ?

because i wanted an AI : (4D10) 32 slots
a Brain : (3d6), 2 slugs ports and 10 storages 20 slots
sensors (enhanced senses and energy sensors, the energy ones being active and passive.) i decided to pay the rating dice only once and yet it would cost almost 60 slots with a 5D10 sensor rating (paid only once).

I stopped there : Kitt wasn't able to drive, having no agility ( is reflexe necessary ? I think so) and had no armor, no commo no boost, no jumping device....

What do you think ? Am I wrong in my maths, or is it just impossible to build KITT for a Junker ?

Synarkhe
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple of things you missed

The first is that a Human only takes 64 slots, not 70. 6 slots saved apiece.
The Miniaturize tool hex is the other thing you missed, and is the biggest key to getting lots of awesome powers in a small space. Consider you gave 6d12 skill to the construction staff, your average result is going to be in the area of an 18 (about half the time, anyway), which is enough for a success and a raise... 20% reduction in room taken by most systems in no joke when applied to that generator. This assumes that the crew was attempting this as a one-shot, which is entirely untrue.

Assume they made at least four prototypes of each major component, and you get a normal result on your roll of at least 26 at least once. This is a 40% space reduction on anything that can be affected by Miniaturize, and a major performance upgrade on literally everything else. This will get you MUCH closer to having KITT (especially since one of the Locomotion upgrades is free accel, which makes the base prototype of the engine much smaller overall)

Add to all of this extensive use of every other major tool hex and method, especially Flow and using oversized Tech Spirits. The number of raises you're looking at will keep you very stable, and if done right will end up requiring almost no power in (saves a boatload of room not having to put 100 GR of batteries in, or only needing a frame-2 reactor)

There may be more to it, but that's what I have off the top of my head. Even doing everything, it may not be possible, but traditional science has to step in somewhere, right?
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Fuzyfeet
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Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 374
Location: Gilroy, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here is what I came up with based on your wants. I set AI and Agility to 2d10 because it will have skills like drive that can be 5 for 5d10, and dropped the sensors to 3d10 to make it all fit. Also I used the Load Points for the armor instead of Junker Armor to reduce the slot cost but it is only equivalent to Kevlar. If you want the jumping device, the speed boost or nice armor your going to have to loose a passenger's seat.

Device: KITT
Frame: 11
Agility: 2d10 (43.92 slots); Drain = 2/hour
AI: 2d10 (16 slots); Drain = 3/hour
Brains: 3d6 (6 slots); 2 slug ports (4 slots); 10 storage (10 slots); Drain = 1/hour
Commo: Data, sound & video with 25 mile range (12 slots); Stereo & tiny monitor (6 slots); Drain = 10/hour
Light: Headlight (6 slots); Drain: 1/hour
Locomotion: Wheel Suspension (54.9 slots); Off-Road (54.9 slots); Quick Acceleration [15 mph] (20.65 slots); 3 passengers + 1 driver ({64 x 3} + 70 = 262 slots); Drain = 9/hour
Reactor: Frame 2 built in (16 + 8 = 24 slots); Output = 4/round [or 4800/hour] {So at 90% it would produce 480/hour and last 90 years}
Sensors: Passive enhanced senses (1.75 slots); Passive energy sensors (3 slots); Active energy sensors [range 100 yards] (8 slots); 3d10 (6 slots); 360 Scan area (9.375 slots); Drain = 13/hour
Total Drain per Hour: 39
Available Slots: 0.505
Components:
Chemical: 13
Electronic: 45
Mechanical: 55
Structural: 69

Cost to build: $1354
Passengers: 4
Engine: Junker
Gas Tank: N/A
MPG: N/A
Suspension: Off-road
Wheels: 4
Top Speed: 120
Acceleration: 15 mph
Durability: 30/6
Handling: 0
Size: +2
Load Limit: 24 (20 used for armor)
Armor
Bottom: 1
Front: 2
Top: 2
Right Side: 2
Left Side: 2
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuzyfeet, did you assume any particular power use or number of raises for that? I think you can actually save enough room on the inside to get a couple of the extras if you are looking at 2-3 raises on Miniaturize, and space savings via Locomotion raises raising your base accel. Heck, I wouldn't want to drive something this awesome on a 16 stability, just saying Smile

Also, where did you find the "reduce output" reference? I thought that Reactor had to go full-force at all times and extra power was just wasted (incidentally why I never took the power except for right before BIG projects)
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Fuzyfeet
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made this assuming that the Junker only made the rolls, no raise, no Miniaturizing, etc. just to show what could be done with a straight build. That's one of the reasons I didn't put Stability in the stats.

Using what I did and then rolling on the powers (with 6d12) will most likely get you some extra perks (like extra handling or acceleration). Then using Miniaturize will really get you some extra slots.

As for the decreased output for the reactor, that was something I asked Hopler back on the listserver, and it was added to the Accumulated Rulings. As for over flow even after 'dialing it back', if you have the batteries and/or a powerjack that energy can be collected, but ya there is always going to be waste.
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synarkhe
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Joined: 04 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

First I want to thank both of you for your answers. That helps a lot.
Also I found fuzyfeet's website and the accumulated ruling site very useful too.

I didn't think about multiple prototypes... That's pretty obvious now that I should have Smile. Thank's for the tip.

Yet a few questions remain :

Fuzyfeet, you give 20.65 slots for the accelaration and I can't figure how you do it, even with the 10% off.
Also, the reactor power says that you can't build a reactor smaller than a frame size 4. Is there an errata that changes that ? yep, I just found the answer, you were the one who asked Smile.


Yet with both your answers, I'll be able to have a KITT to show to my players, and maybe one of them will be interested in playing a junker. Even if they don't that'll be a good laugh to see a modern knight that helps those who lost all hopes (that's how the hero was introduced in the french translation)

Again, thanks a lot to you two !

edited once
synarkhe
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Fuzyfeet
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

synarkhe wrote:
Fuzyfeet, you give 20.65 slots for the accelaration and I can't figure how you do it, even with the 10% off.

Holly Handgrenade! That was a massive oversight. I don't know how I got 20.65 slots. Looking back it should have been 192.15 slots, and even at 5 mph acceleration it's 82.35 slots. That would mean you'd have to drop a passenger's seat to keep it as is with the acceleration dropped to 5 pmh.

Side note: Wasn't KITT a two seater? I understand wanting as many seats as possible in HoE.

I had an AI controlled vehicle in a game I ran but it was a HumVee. Lots more room to cram goodies and passengers.
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PsyBomb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KITT is a 4-seater in the latest versions, though he might have been a 2-seater in the original.

Incidentally, your reactor only lasts for 10 years, not 90... but then again, if your campaign goes for more than 10 years game time without HUGE non-game breaks (as in, Major Crafting attempts for TN 31+), you have an insufficiently sadistic Marshall.
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Fuzyfeet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha. I meant to say at 10% it would produce 480/hour and last 90 years. At 90% it would pump out 4320/hour which would be massive over kill.
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Ju Ju

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PsyBomb
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing, an energy rate of 4/round does not come out that high. Each round is 5 seconds, so 12/minute, then 60/hour.

4*12*60=2880/hour. You can opt to set it to 2% output for 57.6/hour for FIFTY YEARS and use your spare 18.6/hour to charge batteries or something Very Happy . More efficient would be at 1.5% output, but the numbers don't come out nearly as pretty.
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Fuzyfeet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. For some reason I thought it was 3 seconds, but your right. Guess I played D&D too long. Laughing
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Ju Ju

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synarkhe
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

About the locomotion power I found another errata (on the accumulated rules site).
J.Hopler said that the 10% discount is not enough and propose a new ratio :
5% for 5 mph, 10% for 10 and 15% for 15.

Which would give Kitt an 15mph acceleration for 82.35 slot (549*15%).
It's much cheaper than the original 35%.

synarkhe
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