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(classic) Iron Oasis and Flash Gordon

 
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Templar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: (classic) Iron Oasis and Flash Gordon Reply with quote

Ok, my question is this, do the rules for bolt weapons in flash gordon follow the updated rules for explosive ammo in iron oasis or do I just use the explosive radius table on standard sized instead. Just asking because looking at it if I have to do the latter then bolt weapons get kind of..well shitty but I understand if not. Either that or any houserules that others have used would be just lovely.
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WilyQuixote
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Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm I was just looking at this very thing in IO lastnight. I run Flash Gordon under the IO ruling. It is more powerful but I found it also helps reign in the Junker in my party. He has an itchy trigger finger with his custom made plasma rifle. He really thought he had pulled one over on me Twisted Evil when I allowed him to make a 5D10, 15yd burst plasma rifle without a second thought.

That was until he saw its lethal effects in action. He realized, rightly so, he can't use this gun in most shoot outs. Its too dangerous to everyone, friend, foe (more specifically their loot Mr. Green ), and ally alike, to get much use out of. I make sure he gets an opportunity to squeeze the trigger on it from time to time but he found out the hard way it doesn't work out quite the way he hoped it would. Twisted Evil
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Templar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm, not to ask a stupid question but how did he make the rifle exactly, I mean in terms of slots.

ok 5d10 with the IO rules is something like 6 slots, then add in the extra slots for being 15 yard radius burst and that's another 3 slots.

So the thing is 9 base, now I'll assume for the sake of ease that the player just did an ROF:1 and put in a power jack (2 more slots) instead of an internal power supply given what this thing would suck up.

So we now have 27 slots dedicated to the ROF 1, 29 with the power jack before we go to range.

Now for range I'll give some credit and figure his plan was not to shoot at individual targets but at squares, so RI wasn't as big a deal since hitting the ground is pretty damn easy, so I'll just give 10 yards.

10 yards is 4 times the slot, so 38, except that it's doubled again due to the bolt rules mentioned in junkman cometh due to the extra requirements of the magnetic field, so it's 72 for this, also the drain is doubled, but since 10 yards just multiples by 1 we only burn 12 drain per shot.

The 'rifle' is 101 slots, the 'rifle' is only slightly smaller than a Bushmaster, which is meant to be a vehicle mounted weapon. I am simply observing that either I missed another chunk of errata or something was done wrong.
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rungok
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Joined: 09 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that's how it works then my maths is really off.
I made a 10D6 Beam damage, AV 2, Range 10m, Spd/RoF 1 Lazer and as far as my maths went it turned out to be like 10 slots not counting spirit jacks or battery.
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WilyQuixote
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Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Templar- Sorry but I don't have the write up for the rifle on me. The player does. I don't recall the designs specifics off the top of my head but I will say that the 'rifle' ended up being a bigger frame size then he had intended. Next time we play I'll get the details of the build off him and post them up.

Templar/Rungok- Maybe my math was off too but I don't think it came out costing that many (101) slots either. It was a lot of slots but not that many. We built this thing awhile ago and we only used The Junkman Cometh rules which, as you've said, have been updated. So we weren't using the most current rules. Once it was built I never really gave it a second thought as there's never been an issue with game balance.
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Templar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WilyQuixote wrote:
Templar- Sorry but I don't have the write up for the rifle on me. The player does. I don't recall the designs specifics off the top of my head but I will say that the 'rifle' ended up being a bigger frame size then he had intended. Next time we play I'll get the details of the build off him and post them up.

Templar/Rungok- Maybe my math was off too but I don't think it came out costing that many (101) slots either. It was a lot of slots but not that many. We built this thing awhile ago and we only used The Junkman Cometh rules which, as you've said, have been updated. So we weren't using the most current rules. Once it was built I never really gave it a second thought as there's never been an issue with game balance.


Fair enough, the reason I was actually asking was more in the vein of 'do we say that flash gordon uses the old stuff' or do we make some other mod if using the current. I can give a quick version of the errata if it would help.

you take the number of dice, say 4, if it's 4 then you add 1+2+3+4, get the result and multiply by the ammo size of the die type to figure out the base size. Halving it if it's a grenade or somethign similar. I sort of wonder if I should do that too for energy weapons, if only because otherwise with the already existing drain and slot increases from that this could get horrid fast.
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PsyBomb
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually just applied to the forums just to ask a question in a similar vein. I am making a Junker, and wanted to have a death-ray of my very own.

However, something is bugging me. I wrote it up with 5d6 damage, increment 20, a battery port, ROF 1, and a selector switch for Damage/Wind and it fit in a pistol-sized Frame without bothering to Miniaturize. This does not seem quite right to me, as it is slightly better damage than my Hunting Rifle (18 average on the rifle, 18.5 average on my laser) with a 33% better magazine and it's half the size. Here's the breakdown:

Beam Weapon (standard values)
5d6 damage (5 times the d6 rating of 0.1 is 0.5 total) This means 1 drain per shot.
Selector Switch: 2 slots
ROF 1, speed 1: 3x times ammo size, total of 1.5 slots
Range Increment 10: 4 times ammo size, so 2 slots.
Total is 5.5 slots. Max frame for a pistol is 7 (Frame Size 1), so the remaining 1.5 slots goes for a 12-point battery jack. If I Miniaturize, I can easily get this battery space to 16 and have a battery that takes a full ounce of Ghost Rock to recharge.
TN is 7, making it incredibly easy to get a Raise or even two for Stability. If I miniaturize (one success), it takes literally $15.00 in parts ($12.50 if your Marshal allows you to use half-parts). Heck, even if I don't (or if you have to pay full slot costs before miniaturizing) it will only $27 ($14.85 with partial pieces)

What am I missing here? This seems WAY too good to be true. The only possible drawback that I see is very low buildup towards a possible Browser Spirit, but that's not much for a weapon this good. I can even make two, in case the first one is Unstable for some reason. Heck, for the price of a standard Hunting Rifle, I can make TEN (at least).
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Templar
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Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PsyBomb wrote:
I actually just applied to the forums just to ask a question in a similar vein. I am making a Junker, and wanted to have a death-ray of my very own.

However, something is bugging me. I wrote it up with 5d6 damage, increment 20, a battery port, ROF 1, and a selector switch for Damage/Wind and it fit in a pistol-sized Frame without bothering to Miniaturize. This does not seem quite right to me, as it is slightly better damage than my Hunting Rifle (18 average on the rifle, 18.5 average on my laser) with a 33% better magazine and it's half the size. Here's the breakdown:

Beam Weapon (standard values)
5d6 damage (5 times the d6 rating of 0.1 is 0.5 total) This means 1 drain per shot.
Selector Switch: 2 slots
ROF 1, speed 1: 3x times ammo size, total of 1.5 slots
Range Increment 10: 4 times ammo size, so 2 slots.
Total is 5.5 slots. Max frame for a pistol is 7 (Frame Size 1), so the remaining 1.5 slots goes for a 12-point battery jack. If I Miniaturize, I can easily get this battery space to 16 and have a battery that takes a full ounce of Ghost Rock to recharge.
TN is 7, making it incredibly easy to get a Raise or even two for Stability. If I miniaturize (one success), it takes literally $15.00 in parts ($12.50 if your Marshal allows you to use half-parts). Heck, even if I don't (or if you have to pay full slot costs before miniaturizing) it will only $27 ($14.85 with partial pieces)

What am I missing here? This seems WAY too good to be true. The only possible drawback that I see is very low buildup towards a possible Browser Spirit, but that's not much for a weapon this good. I can even make two, in case the first one is Unstable for some reason. Heck, for the price of a standard Hunting Rifle, I can make TEN (at least).


Oh, you aren't missing anything. Junker tech is usually better than regular stuff but there are things to consider.

1) You need G rays to power said blaster which means ghost rock. Hard to find and can get rather expensive. If you get a soul tap that's easier, but still sort of problematic.

2) Stability. Your rifle will always work normally barring something happening to it. However, your blaster pistol might vanish, go haywire, start flying through the air making an odd whistling noise, or even vanish leaving you with a pissed off demon in front of you pondering your potential deliciousness.

3) Miniaturization makes weapons do less damage, make your laser mini and its damage will drop.
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ScooterinAB
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Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya. You aren't missing anything. Junker weapons are dumb. I suspect that it is a nod to Mad Science, where the manitous were messing with the doc's and showing them weapons. With so many bombs and weapons used during the last war, it's easy to imagine that gun spirits are more plentiful, and a bit more desperate to "serve" man once more (thus add a little extra boom to the weapons).

Of course, you also have the resource management issues. When it comes down to it, unless you are making a particularly special weapon, I find the weapon powers to be moot. It is just easier to scav up a weapon than it is to mess around with an unreliable, expensive weapon. My friends and I designed more than a few guns that cost a night's accommodations to fire.
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28/12/09 Scooter just bought a Deadlands book... In a Japanese Gaming store... And the clerk knew what it was. Awesome.
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