Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Redtwin]

I'll try to keep this spoiler free.

There's an enemy type in EN that attack in large numbers and attack twice a round with a low fighting skill and really low damage. I'm finding it incredibly tedious rolling a giant pile of dice for their attacks and damage with very little effect. It also created a problem with a joker making those giant piles of dice significant and nearly wiping the party in one turn.

I'm considering reducing them to a single attack each and boosting their fighting and damage to compensate. Has anyone else done this, and how well did it work out?
_________________
"Anybody else feel like fishing for Rattlers?"
Said while dragging a size 12 giant worm down the highway behind my Hummer at full speed to kill it via road rash.

[ValhallaGH]

There was a pretty good thread a couple of years ago about making stuff more effective. http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31784
Then there was werecorpse's customized bestiary for his particular campaign. http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31529


For your specific idea, of having fewer attacks that should be more effective, there are a couple of things to keep in mind.

Fewer rolls of larger dice make fights a lot more unpredictable. Lots of tiny dice mean that the heroes will take one or two serious wounds per fight, but most of the attacks will be harmless. For heroically wading through hordes, this is a genre expectation.

Half as many larger dice mean that fights are more likely to swing suddenly; a good roll can easily crush a random PC, simply by acing twice (a d4 aces twice and gets 9, while the d8 aces twice and gets 17). d8+6 versus high parry (~10) means they'll hit about 50% of the time, with a raise about 12.5% of the time. If damage is 2d6 base then you're looking at 2d6+2 half the time (average 10), or 3d6+2 about an eighth of the time (average 14). Assuming PC toughness around 8, that's a Shaken from about a third of attacks, and a Wound from about a twentieth of attacks. That's the statistical expectation, but dice do like to ignore statistics.


The trick is to figure out why the current setup is not fun for you. Too many dice to roll? Have your players roll some of them. The attacks aren't effective enough? You could alter the monsters, or utilize other creatures. Initiative can make the mob useless or ineffective? Split the horde up into several smaller groups, each with their own initiative.
Once you know what your issues are, you can fix them, and we can help based upon our own experiences. The problem is that we cannot identify your issues from across the internet.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

[Redtwin]

The problem is focus and spotlight.

The more time I devote to rolling dice, the more attention I draw to random mechanics. The more attention I draw to random mechanics, the more the players will focus on the dice themselves instead of the impact their choices have on the outcome. Tactics are ignored in favour of repeating the same basic attacks over and over again and relying on luck.

Secondly, the more time I spend on Extras, the more spotlight I'm taking away from Wild Cards. The spotlight should be firmly focused on the bold heroes slaying the horde of monsters and on the villain commanding them. Putting it on the anonymous goons weakens the attachment the players have to the characters - and that undermines what RPGs are all about.

Delegating die rolling to the players makes both problems worse, as does splitting hordes into smaller groups, though that does neatly mitigate the Joker nearly wiping the party.
_________________
"Anybody else feel like fishing for Rattlers?"
Said while dragging a size 12 giant worm down the highway behind my Hummer at full speed to kill it via road rash.

[tigerguy786]

What is EN? Evernight?

One solution is to make the fighting rolls combined rolls. Maybe say: "These three attack you." Roll Fighting die+wild die, and count it as the character getting hit up to 2 times though more attacked, or roll 2 fighting dice and a wild die and count up to 3 hits. Whatever, it's just a general idea.

This seems a good compromise between the options. It keeps the spotlight on the heroes but doesn't eliminate the threat entirely either.
_________________
TIGER, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

[ValhallaGH]

[Redtwin]

It's something I've noticed in most of the groups I've been in, and it was far worse in Classic due to the extra complexity of combat. I do tend to recruit new players, so it might be that they're more easily distracted than the veterans.

I really notice the use of tactics plummet with the critter in question. The use of tactics drops right off and it gets treated like chopping down trees.

In my experience, having players roll for NPCs only works when the NPCs are allies, and even that only works with players who are familiar enough with the system to multitask within it.
_________________
"Anybody else feel like fishing for Rattlers?"
Said while dragging a size 12 giant worm down the highway behind my Hummer at full speed to kill it via road rash.

[ValhallaGH]