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kronovan
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Kodyax, here's the link to a downloadable PDF of the character sheet. It's being hosted at rpgobjects.com. |
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Kodyax
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Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you very much, I saved a copy to my computer. |
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AlienMasters
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Joined: 17 Mar 2009
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Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I just picked up IZ recently and love it! It's next in our gaming queue now, and I have been delving into the mechanics of it.
I have a question regarding Gritty Damage, or actually, the healing of Gritty Damage. One bit of rule that isn't directly stated but does clearly derive from Table 2:1 Gritty Damage is that Wildcards cannot ever be directly incapacitated by an attack: no matter how much damage exceeds toughness the maximum result is still Shaken and 3 wounds. What knocks the Wildcards out is the vigor roll (at -3 in the above case) after being wounded, a roll at which they need a Raise to not be KOd or worse. This is correct per this thread, as IZ is using Moscow Connection: http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20341&highlight=moscow
But if a PC does succeed in a Raise on their Vigor and remain concious with 3 wounds (and a temporary injury), and then gets hit again each new wounding attack regardless of it being 1, 2, or 3 wounds incurs a vigor roll at -3. This is because it clearly states that the maximum penalty to a vigor roll is -3 from wounds. It does not state that 3 wounds is the maximum, and the phraseing of a penalty maximum regardless of number of wounds means that having more than 3 wounds is possible.
So a very lucky and vigorous wildcard in a truly epic display of vigor might accumulate four, five, six, or even more wounds before succumbing, or might not even succumb and end the fight still concious with six wounds. (Yippieekayay mother*).
Well, this affects Healing attempts because in SWEX it doesn't say the attempts are penalized by the patient's wound penalties, but by the wound level. And this would affect the length of time for natural healing rolls, because a success just removes one wound level (made it! now I only have five wounds).
Does that all sound right? Maximum penalty is -3, but there is no maximum wound level? It makes sense, but isn't spelled out as such and takes a bit of extrapolation to get there from the way things work in the core rules.
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thurak
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Joined: 04 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| AlienMasters wrote: | I just picked up IZ recently and love it! It's next in our gaming queue now, and I have been delving into the mechanics of it.
I have a question regarding Gritty Damage, or actually, the healing of Gritty Damage. One bit of rule that isn't directly stated but does clearly derive from Table 2:1 Gritty Damage is that Wildcards cannot ever be directly incapacitated by an attack: no matter how much damage exceeds toughness the maximum result is still Shaken and 3 wounds. What knocks the Wildcards out is the vigor roll (at -3 in the above case) after being wounded, a roll at which they need a Raise to not be KOd or worse. This is correct per this thread, as IZ is using Moscow Connection: http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20341&highlight=moscow
But if a PC does succeed in a Raise on their Vigor and remain concious with 3 wounds (and a temporary injury), and then gets hit again each new wounding attack regardless of it being 1, 2, or 3 wounds incurs a vigor roll at -3. This is because it clearly states that the maximum penalty to a vigor roll is -3 from wounds. It does not state that 3 wounds is the maximum, and the phraseing of a penalty maximum regardless of number of wounds means that having more than 3 wounds is possible.
So a very lucky and vigorous wildcard in a truly epic display of vigor might accumulate four, five, six, or even more wounds before succumbing, or might not even succumb and end the fight still concious with six wounds. (Yippieekayay mother*).
Well, this affects Healing attempts because in SWEX it doesn't say the attempts are penalized by the patient's wound penalties, but by the wound level. And this would affect the length of time for natural healing rolls, because a success just removes one wound level (made it! now I only have five wounds).
Does that all sound right? Maximum penalty is -3, but there is no maximum wound level? It makes sense, but isn't spelled out as such and takes a bit of extrapolation to get there from the way things work in the core rules. |
Hmnm. I always thought the maximum number of wound levels you could ever get was 3 (and consequently have a -3 penalty to vigor rolls). I'll have to look into it.
BUT if there is no maximum, it sounds right. You heal damage as per the normal rules for healing damage goes in Swex or SWDE.
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David Jarvis
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Banjo
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 283
Location: Gordon Park, QLD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| AlienMasters wrote: | I just picked up IZ recently and love it! It's next in our gaming queue now, and I have been delving into the mechanics of it.
I have a question regarding Gritty Damage, or actually, the healing of Gritty Damage. One bit of rule that isn't directly stated but does clearly derive from Table 2:1 Gritty Damage is that Wildcards cannot ever be directly incapacitated by an attack: no matter how much damage exceeds toughness the maximum result is still Shaken and 3 wounds. What knocks the Wildcards out is the vigor roll (at -3 in the above case) after being wounded, a roll at which they need a Raise to not be KOd or worse. This is correct per this thread, as IZ is using Moscow Connection: http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20341&highlight=moscow
But if a PC does succeed in a Raise on their Vigor and remain concious with 3 wounds (and a temporary injury), and then gets hit again each new wounding attack regardless of it being 1, 2, or 3 wounds incurs a vigor roll at -3. This is because it clearly states that the maximum penalty to a vigor roll is -3 from wounds. It does not state that 3 wounds is the maximum, and the phraseing of a penalty maximum regardless of number of wounds means that having more than 3 wounds is possible.
So a very lucky and vigorous wildcard in a truly epic display of vigor might accumulate four, five, six, or even more wounds before succumbing, or might not even succumb and end the fight still concious with six wounds. (Yippieekayay mother*).
Well, this affects Healing attempts because in SWEX it doesn't say the attempts are penalized by the patient's wound penalties, but by the wound level. And this would affect the length of time for natural healing rolls, because a success just removes one wound level (made it! now I only have five wounds).
Does that all sound right? Maximum penalty is -3, but there is no maximum wound level? It makes sense, but isn't spelled out as such and takes a bit of extrapolation to get there from the way things work in the core rules. |
You never take more than 3 wounds but if you already have 3 wounds and take another wound or wounds you would still roll on the damage table each time you take another wound(s). The extra damage inflicted, even if only temporary, will soon take a character down, unless he was extraordinary lucky  |
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AlienMasters
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Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | Hmnm. I always thought the maximum number of wound levels you could ever get was 3 (and consequently have a -3 penalty to vigor rolls). I'll have to look into it.
BUT if there is no maximum, it sounds right. You heal damage as per the normal rules for healing damage goes in Swex or SWDE. |
In the core rules (SWEX at least) it does say that a wild card has a maximum of three wounds, but setting rules wield the trump. The three wound maximum isn't explicitly overruled in the Gritty Damage rules, just strongly implied - and also implied in the thread I linked discussing PCs with 4 wounds in Moscow Connection. I'm probably just reading between the lines too much. Given the importance of healing attempts to stabilize in Gritty Damage, the way I have interpreted has a potential to be a lot more gritty/deadly than Banjo's more FFF answer.
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Banjo
Seasoned
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 283
Location: Gordon Park, QLD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| AlienMasters wrote: | | thurak wrote: | Hmnm. I always thought the maximum number of wound levels you could ever get was 3 (and consequently have a -3 penalty to vigor rolls). I'll have to look into it.
BUT if there is no maximum, it sounds right. You heal damage as per the normal rules for healing damage goes in Swex or SWDE. |
In the core rules (SWEX at least) it does say that a wild card has a maximum of three wounds, but setting rules wield the trump. The three wound maximum isn't explicitly overruled in the Gritty Damage rules, just strongly implied - and also implied in the thread I linked discussing PCs with 4 wounds in Moscow Connection. I'm probably just reading between the lines too much. Given the importance of healing attempts to stabilize in Gritty Damage, the way I have interpreted has a potential to be a lot more gritty/deadly than Banjo's more FFF answer. |
On the other hand, if it does not explicity state that you can take more than 3 wounds in the setting rule, then the core rules must take precedence ??
That can be the only logical interpretation, otherwise your could take any "setting" rule and put your own "spin" on it, even if it contradicted the core rules, just because it didn't explicity state that the core rules are to be followed.
Of course in your own game you do what you want....
Cheers, Chris |
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AlienMasters
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Joined: 17 Mar 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Banjo wrote: | On the other hand, if it does not explicity state that you can take more than 3 wounds in the setting rule, then the core rules must take precedence ??
That can be the only logical interpretation, otherwise your could take any "setting" rule and put your own "spin" on it, even if it contradicted the core rules, just because it didn't explicity state that the core rules are to be followed. |
In this thread linked earlier http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20341&highlight=moscow there is discussion of a Core Rule (4 wounds = automatic incap) that is not explicitly stated to not be in effect. It is just implied by the setting rules to not be in effect, and Clint confirms this implication is correct.
In the setting rules for IZ it implies that the core rule of 3 max wounds is not to be followed, at least by my read. If that's wrong it wouldn't be anywhere close to the first time I read something incorrectly or had a logic error in my interpretation. I wasn't trying to put a spin on anything, and don't have a strong attachment to one answer or the other. I was just confused by the rules and seeking understanding from and common ground with my fellow Savages.
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Banjo
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Gordon Park, QLD
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AlienMasters wrote: | | Banjo wrote: | On the other hand, if it does not explicity state that you can take more than 3 wounds in the setting rule, then the core rules must take precedence ??
That can be the only logical interpretation, otherwise your could take any "setting" rule and put your own "spin" on it, even if it contradicted the core rules, just because it didn't explicity state that the core rules are to be followed. |
In this thread linked earlier http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20341&highlight=moscow there is discussion of a Core Rule (4 wounds = automatic incap) that is not explicitly stated to not be in effect. It is just implied by the setting rules to not be in effect, and Clint confirms this implication is correct.
In the setting rules for IZ it implies that the core rule of 3 max wounds is not to be followed, at least by my read. If that's wrong it wouldn't be anywhere close to the first time I read something incorrectly or had a logic error in my interpretation. I wasn't trying to put a spin on anything, and don't have a strong attachment to one answer or the other. I was just confused by the rules and seeking understanding from and common ground with my fellow Savages. |
Well, having read Clint's answer and the question I think, although I could be wrong, it was more a question of "If you take more than three wounds are you automatically incapacitated ?" And the answer is no, whether you are using the gritty combat or the standard combat rules. All gritty combat really does is make a character take more incapacitation tests.
The best solution is to ask Clint directly "Can a character take more than 3 wounds under the Gritty Combat rules in the Moscow Connection ?" in the same forum. This should solve the the matter once and for all |
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kronovan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| I'm hesitant to visit something that seems to have arrived at a plan for resolution; i.e. feedback from Clint. But anyhow...if the intent of the IZ setting is to allow for more than 3 wounds before incapacitation, why does the character sheet list only 3 wounds before the INC maker? Just decorative border trimming perhaps? |
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| kronovan wrote: | | I'm hesitant to visit something that seems to have arrived at a plan for resolution; i.e. feedback from Clint. But anyhow...if the intent of the IZ setting is to allow for more than 3 wounds before incapacitation, why does the character sheet list only 3 wounds before the INC maker? Just decorative border trimming perhaps? |
That character sheet didn't come out all that great, but unfortunately it's all we got until I can get a new one made. But honestly, I've always been under the impression that 3 wounds was all you got before incapacitation, so in that regards, the character sheet isn't broken.
IF you are allowing more, then you'll just have to count them off on a piece of scratch paper.
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David Jarvis
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kronovan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | | kronovan wrote: | | I'm hesitant to visit something that seems to have arrived at a plan for resolution; i.e. feedback from Clint. But anyhow...if the intent of the IZ setting is to allow for more than 3 wounds before incapacitation, why does the character sheet list only 3 wounds before the INC maker? Just decorative border trimming perhaps? |
That character sheet didn't come out all that great, but unfortunately it's all we got until I can get a new one made. But honestly, I've always been under the impression that 3 wounds was all you got before incapacitation, so in that regards, the character sheet isn't broken.
IF you are allowing more, then you'll just have to count them off on a piece of scratch paper. |
I actually think the character sheet is perfectly fine - in fact its darn good IMO. I just had 4 people roll up some PC's this weekend and they all thought it was good too. Someone commented that they thought my printer screwed up on the printing -which it didn't- but I think they were commenting on the blueprints on vellum sort of effect which could look blurry to some. I don't know if that's what you were intending, but it definitely works for me and it's a cool retro effect.
My impressions from my 2 read throughs of IZ is that it's just 3 wounds before INC too. If that's not the case I'm not sure I'd want to implement it anywasy, as I already have a few problems with over-confident PC's in my other campaigns. |
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Banjo
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Location: Gordon Park, QLD
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Seeing the original poster did not bother checking with Clint I did so myself and here is his reply
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326553#326553
I think it is pretty clear that even under the Gritty combat rules you only take take a maximum of 3 wounds, you can take extra wounds after the first 3 but they only require extra vigor rolls and are not recorded as extra wounds
Cheers, Chris |
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booga
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Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all this great info.
I have a Semantic question : under the occupations in the core book, the bonus credits are a set amount per "level up". In Boston and Zeeks the additional occupations have a credit bonus per "advance". Are "level up" and advance the same thing, that is every 5 XPs ?
Thanks ! |
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kronovan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| booga wrote: | Thanks for all this great info.
I have a Semantic question : under the occupations in the core book, the bonus credits are a set amount per "level up". In Boston and Zeeks the additional occupations have a credit bonus per "advance". Are "level up" and advance the same thing, that is every 5 XPs ?
Thanks ! |
Yes. One of the authors of the game confirmed it's per advance in this thread at the Gunmetal Games forums. Its the 2nd reply down by "gunmetaladmin". |
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booga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Neato, Thanks ! |
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Kodyax
Seasoned
Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Posts: 492
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| I have everything that is in print for IZ now. The Shadowtalk in the Boston book was great. If the guy who does Gun Meta Games is reading, more of that in future books please, it was a feature that made Shadowrun so much fun to read for me. |
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thurak
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks 
We'll definitely be doing more of that in all of our Interface Zero products
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David Jarvis
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kronovan
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kodyax wrote: | | I have everything that is in print for IZ now. The Shadowtalk in the Boston book was great. |
Where in the Boston book is this Shadowtalk you refer to? When I browsed through that book at a LGS, I didn't recall seeing any thing like that. As well, having never played the Shadowrun PnP, I'm curious as to just what Shadowtalk is? |
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Stampede
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Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Shadowtalk refers to the way Shadowrun RPG products are written.
The Majority of them are written from an In character perspective, posted on the ubiquitious website Shadowrunners use to talk shop "Shadowland" (later "Jack Point" in 4th edition)
Specifically, Shadowtalk refers to In character posts by Characters from the Shadowrun universe, relating to the topic being discussed.
For example, the Cyberwear book for Shadowrun, may be presented ICly as if reading a catalog, occasionally after a few entries you may have some Shadowrunners discussing various different Cybernetic enhancements which may or may not have worked for them.
I took this idea and put a modern spin on it for Interface Zero.
In all new Interface Zero Products from Boston onward, the sidebars of the books are presented as an in character Forum for a website called "Declassified".
Declassified is modeled after the "wikileaks" of today. While Interface Zero's own operatives for hire (Known as Ronin) use the Declassified Website and talk on it, it's not just for them. Journalists, Students, Government Stooges, Activists, and those just wanting to information trade also use the "Declassified" site as a clearing house.
My Ultimate goal as I work through the Interface Zero setting is presenting a myriad of options for play beyond just doing the archetypical "Ronin" game. Not that there is anything wrong with the Ronin game, I just plan on showcasing more things you can do in a Cyberpunk setting beyond blowing stuff up for money. In Eithercase, the "Declassified" Sidebars help with this by providing a different counter point or opinion on the information presented in the main text.
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David Viars
Line Developer for Interface Zero
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