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OSIAdept
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Jordan Peacock
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 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Triple Ace Games uses an interesting approach for their Daring Tales of the Sprawl series, and the Cyberpunk Rules available for free download on their site.
A friend of mine who is going to start an online cyberpunk campaign (he's looking at online frameworks such as Maptools to handle the maps aspect, and I hope to help out with markers and such) has been looking at this as a possibility.
Personally, I prefer to think of "cyberware as gear" rather than Edges, I suppose because I'm used to Cyberpunk 2020 and so forth. I like my combat fast and furious, but I suppose part of the "fun" is in "shopping" for what cool upgrades you can get with your meager funds (and weighing that against the cost to your humanity and/or sanity if you go too far). (Of course, the trouble with this preference is that it requires a huge shopping list of gear, and some effort to be put into playtesting and balancing it out.)
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OSIAdept
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HawaiianBrian
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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To me it works in theory, but for two reasons:
A) players want something other than just a normal advancement under another name,
B) cybernetics are supposed to provide super-human abilities.
So personally I agree that a "cybernetics as gear" approach is better.
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RPTroll
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Squidfisher
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Frankly, I'd just use AB: Super Powers or Weird Science, depending on taste, and round things out with 'magic-item-esque' implants. Daring Tales of the Sprawl and Interface Zero both provide great 'gritty' systems, though. |
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Granthar
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I would think Cybernetics would bbe soemthing similar to the Ripper recipies for rippertech, just with some robotic trapping/lore.
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HawaiianBrian
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I was never satisfied with any cybernetics rules I found anywhere, so I ended up making my own. It uses cyberware as gear. Not as FFF as Edges, Powers, etc. but it worked pretty well for a game I ran last year.
http://getsavaged.blogspot.com/2007/12/savage-cyberware.html
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Jordan Peacock
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| HawaiianBrian wrote: | I was never satisfied with any cybernetics rules I found anywhere, so I ended up making my own. It uses cyberware as gear. Not as FFF as Edges, Powers, etc. but it worked pretty well for a game I ran last year.
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Thanks for the link! I've got a friend looking to start up a near-future / cyberpunkish campaign; I'll have to pass this along to him as an alternative to consider.
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HawaiianBrian
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the wiki I made for that cyberpunk campaign:
http://67.207.129.22/campaigns/nightrun
It was set in a fictional city in southern New Jersey called Mercer City, but since it is so corrupt and crime-ridden everyone refers to it as "Murder City." The characters were shiftless, jobless mercs recently arrived in the city for different reasons. Their sole contact was a fixer named Worm, whom they quickly outgrew and double-crossed. Pretty soon they were caught up in a bloody war between a black-market cybernetics dealer (the guy made his living by having some thugs murder people with cyberware, which was then removed by a ripperdoc on payroll and resold on the black market) and a Russian Mafia rival who was trying to establish himself in the same business.
I had plans for the Yakuza, Chinese Triads, Jamaican Posses, the Italian Mafia, the works. The campaign style was supposed to be similar to Grand Theft Auto -- "sandbox" style, with missions based on what the players wanted to do, not pre-determined by the GM. Problem was, I found it started to degenerate without a guided goal. The characters became even more wicked then they began, and their obsession with money started to rip apart their other goals.
It probably would have been best to set them up with a patron who is powerful, someone who they would never dare (or desire) to double-cross; someone like a Mafia Don. Then they could have been like free agents, only with occasional orders giving them some structure and distinct goals.
I might try it again someday, though I doubt that group could be talked into it. 
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Fury
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: |
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This is an interesting thread. One of my long term projects is to run a Savage Worlds campaign based on Games Workshop's Dark Future setting. Cybernetics and bioware exist in the setting, but mostly as limb or organ replacements, or as quality of life enhancements.
I do not want cyberware to be an automatic upgrade path for all players, but I do want cyber to give more character options. I would probably use cyberware-as-edges from the Sci-Fi Gear Toolkit. In addition to the cyberware from the Sci-Fi toolkit, I've also decided to use something I call edgeware. This is simply cyberware that duplicates the effects of edges. This is does not work for all edges, but it allows characters to take some background edges after character creation as implants, or take other edges with cybernetic trappings for flavor. This has not been tested in play, though.
I've played a lot of Cyberpunk 2020, so I'm a bit wary of cyberware as gear. In my experience, player characters tend to install as much cyberware as they can get away with.
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RPTroll
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Jordan Peacock
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Fury wrote: | | I've played a lot of Cyberpunk 2020, so I'm a bit wary of cyberware as gear. In my experience, player characters tend to install as much cyberware as they can get away with. |
But isn't getting "chromed" part of the fun? 
Seriously, though, I ended up a game where it seemed the GM was intent upon showing that every single upgrade had a potential drawback. (It could be partly because he was a fan of "Battle Angel Alita," and cyborgs were regularly getting short-circuited and worse in that series. Just a touch of this gizmo and **ZOT** - all your hardware is immobilized.) My PC (a street rocker) ended up spending the whole campaign mostly cyber-free (save for a jack for his cyberguitar that conferred some petty little bonus I can't remember the details of), and was none the worse for it in the long run.
Anyway, that's part of the background reason why I'm wary of cyberware as mere "trappings" for Edges. If you just increase your Strength or a skill, it's something inherent, and no easier to rob your character of than it would be from any other. If, however, your superior Strength is defined as a cyberarm, or your increased skill is defined as a chip implant, you could potentially end up in a situation where your cyberarm is disabled, or the chip is swiped, and you've effectively lost an Advance - or worse (since a disabled cyberarm means you're now minus one arm, never mind the bonus Strength).
Now, this COULD be balanced, in theory, but if nothing is pinned down, it really could boil down to what sort of mood the GM is in at the time, and how compelling of an argument players make in their own self-interest. By pinning your Advance to a trapping such as cyberware, I think a player is hindering himself, because he might be subject to a new limitation that someone else with the same benefit defined as a "natural" ability wouldn't have to worry about.
Hence, I'd prefer to hammer it down in the form of "gear" with specific benefits and drawbacks and prices; it may well be that one piece of gear is a "better deal" than another, but that's part of the process of exploring the setting, and the players and PCs can figure that out for themselves. One thing I'll throw in is that I also happen to like mechanics that ascribe some sort of "humanity cost" or other drawback for heavy cybergear. Cybergear should be cool in a cyberpunk setting, I think, but there should also be room for a competent PC who has, for whatever reason, decided to go "cyber-free," and not just for lack of funds and times to cyber up.
That's just my personal preference, though. Setting up a bunch of cyber gear requires a certain amount of preparation overhead above and beyond the core SW rules. Plus, some GMs might prefer that their players not spend so much time "shopping," when there's a storyline to move forward with.
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OSIAdept
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I was thinking of using some of the following concepts with the cyberware edges.
Drain: Cybernetics take a huge toll on the human body. This is represented by Drain; each cybernetic implant has a drain value ranging from zero to five and above. Drain is the body’s natural ability to handle cybernetic augmentation. A person’s drain is equal to ˝ vigor +1/2 spirit. Drain can be modified via edges and hindrances.
Cyberware edges come in two catagories.
• Implant: Enhances or replaces some part of the body, each implant has a drain score associated with them
• Upgrade: A program or mechanical enhancement to a pre-existing implant. Upgrades do not have a drain score associated them.
Damaging and Repairing cyberware
Every time you take a wound you risk your implants being damaged.
If you take a wound make a vigor roll, wound penalties apply
- on a success, no damage
- on a failure the closest implant to the damage goes offline for 2d6 rounds
- on a natural roll of one regardless of the wild die take 2d6 electrical damage this bypasses armor.
- On a snake eyes, the implant is offline until repaired and you take 2d6 electrical damage Repairing Cyberware
To repair cyberware you must first make a Kn: cyberware to diagnose the problem, this determines the penalty and amount of time consumed, then a repair check to fix the damage. You must have the proper tools/equipment or the repair attempt cannot be made.
Let me know what you think
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Takeda
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Well cybernetic implants could allow you to bypass the usual "increase a Stat but only once per Rank" limit or buy background edges after character creation. So A Street Samurai goes from Novice to Seasoned and raises Str & Vgr by +1D each but has access to cybernetic enhancements so adds wired reflexes (Quick, +1D Agl) and Reinforced Skeleton (+1D Vgr) and muscle grafting (+1D Str). And that's their advancements from 5xp to 30xp.
If you want to mitigate the advantages of cybernetics compared to the 'Pure' then perhaps on a botch there is a chance that some cyberware that would be in use as the botch has to make a Vigour check to see if it malfunctions. Roll is based on the quality of the 'ware so high-end stuff might have a Vigour of D8, typical stuff has D6 and used or just plain crappy stuff has D4. If it fails the roll it stops working and the 'borg is shaken. On a nat 1 on the Vigour die it stops working and must be repaired.
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ValhallaGH
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've become a fan of the Arcane Abilities model from this thread.
It even has a Cybernetics background, which allows for some spiffy stuff (get 2 abilities and 10 power points, which could be used for Blast [internal plasma pistol] or other regular powers).
Good stuff, and easily scaled for greater effects. Heck, you could even declare each ability to be purchasable at the rate of $X per edge (1k, 10k, 100k, or 1M, depending upon how accessible you want them to be).
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OSIAdept
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HawaiianBrian
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Besides, aren't you putting players in a position of having their characters fork out money for an Edge with an advancement? With that, in addition to the potential for having their cyberware destroyed or zapped, wouldn't every player opt for a "regular" Edge upon advancement? It seems the obvious choice. After all, with cyberware as Edges, it never allows them to become "more human than human" -- they're exactly the same as if they advanced without cyberware installed.
Someone mentioned using the rules for Weird Science. That might work. I'd have to look at it closer. But one thing that me stay away from cyber as Powers was that I could easily come up with 'ware that I couldn't imagine how to cover with existing Powers, as flexible as they are.
Now, something might be workable with the Super Powers Companion...
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OSIAdept
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77IM
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| HawaiianBrian wrote: | | Besides, aren't you putting players in a position of having their characters fork out money for an Edge with an advancement? With that, in addition to the potential for having their cyberware destroyed or zapped, wouldn't every player opt for a "regular" Edge upon advancement? It seems the obvious choice. After all, with cyberware as Edges, it never allows them to become "more human than human" -- they're exactly the same as if they advanced without cyberware installed. |
It depends on the edges. If they are abilities that you can't get elsewhere then players may take them or may not. I like using edges because it allows players to choose cyberware or not, and still be (roughly) balanced against one another. With cyberware-as-gear or the TAG system, there's really not a lot of reasons to NOT get all cybered up (...unless you bake in a balancing factor, like making it easy to hack into cyberware, ala Ghost in the Shell). That may fit some genres, but an edge-based system can also serve those genres by giving out free cyber edges.
-- 77IM
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