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[SPC] Question on Immunity

 
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: [SPC] Question on Immunity Reply with quote

If you have complete immunity, do you take half damage from essentially EVERYTHING, except the one thing you chose not to? It says matter and energy, so it seems to me that this is basically 50% damage reduction versus any attack made on you.

I know it's expensive (16 points) but this seems like a great buy for a superman type character.
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Teonas
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about antimatter! Surprised
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HaraldKlak
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: [SPC] Question on Immunity Reply with quote

terrywhisenant wrote:
If you have complete immunity, do you take half damage from essentially EVERYTHING, except the one thing you chose not to? It says matter and energy, so it seems to me that this is basically 50% damage reduction versus any attack made on you.

I know it's expensive (16 points) but this seems like a great buy for a superman type character.


Mostly due to the description, that he is able to survive in space.

Otherwise you might be better of throwing those 16 PPs in Super Vigor, raising him from a d6 to d12+13. With an additional 9 toughness he's gonna be hard to take down, and he'll laugh at the pesky incapacitation table.
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nonefornic
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Teonas alludes; that power sounds great in theory- but as comics show us, there are a whole lot of things that don't exactly fit precisely into the "matter" or "energy" category. Captain Universe's "Uni-Power" is described as a "force"... so its not really either energy or matter (though that kind of thing really depends on the GM's opinion) but something else entirely. The Spectre could probably pull something similiar out of his hat. Then you got those tricky little Star Sapphire's in DC who can summon chunks of, well, sapphire using "love energy" - so they could be ruled as simultaneously energy and matter. Which raises the question; does immunity work on both Energy and Matter simultaneously?
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I get the reasoning to do it other ways, my question though is "Is that what it really means?" Does every other attack, other than your vulnerability, only do half damage?
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maeloke
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's a pretty nice power. HaraldKlak is right, though; it's not nearly as super as it might seem at first.

A character rocking universal immunity has dropped nearly all his points into that power, and consequently is going to be rocking a vigor of perhaps d8. That means his toughness is 6, so it takes all of 12 damage (of any type) to shake him. 12 is chump damage in supers, so he's really not all that indestructible.

On the other hand, a character could drop 10-12 points to get that d12+8 in vigor. They'd have a toughness of 12 as well, so the same chance to be damaged as the "immune" guy. Honestly, d12+8 vigor is enough to get away with pretty much everything that'll come up.

Now, stacking both of those abilities on top of each other would be pretty devastating, but that's upwards of 30 points just to be "immune" to conventional damage (takes 30+ damage to wound him). Does nothing against powers that effect the mind, nullify powers, or hinder a character without doing damage (entangle, bind, etc).
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how I'd read it. If you're Superperson, then yeah, I'd say you take only 1/2 damage, but it would hurt. Normally, as the monstrous ability, it can only shake. As the AB: Supers power, if there's a lot of lucky rolls, then immunity still means that you're taking wounds...just less than you would. It's close but no Kal-El.
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, at Veteran, 40 xp, which is what I'm building, it's easy to make a device with:

Flight 6 points, reduced to 4 by device.
Super Strength +6 and Super Vigor +6, reduced to 9 by device.
Armor 6 points, which is +6 AP with Heavy, reduced to 4 by device.
Melee Attack, +1d6 for 2 points, reduced to 1 by device.
Immunity, Complete for 16 points, reduced to 12 by device.

For 30 power points total, which I find kinda nasty.

If he ONLY raises his str and vigor to d6 normally, and doesn't spend any raises doing so, he still gets d12+3, which gives him a base toughness of 9, add 6 AP from Armor to get a 15(6) Toughness. Add on to that with Brawny, and raising Vigor at least once, if not twice, with level ups, and I think you have a viable Superman clone, who at basic level takes a hit of 30 points from non-armor piercing attacks just to Shake, and 38/46/54 points to put a -1/-2/-3 wound on.

What do you guys think?
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Last edited by terrywhisenant on Mon May 24, 2010 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maeloke wrote:
Does nothing against powers that effect the mind, nullify powers, or hinder a character without doing damage (entangle, bind, etc).


Well, I've always found it to be kinda rude to make a completely unstoppable character Razz
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thatdarnedbob
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrywhisenant wrote:
maeloke wrote:
Does nothing against powers that effect the mind, nullify powers, or hinder a character without doing damage (entangle, bind, etc).


Well, I've always found it to be kinda rude to make a completely unstoppable character Razz


Yeah, every good hero or villain has at least one weakness. Maybe even at least two, split between explicit and implicit.
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maeloke
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... Yep, that guy's quite a beast. Or rather, his armor is. I've definitely built my share of supers that exploit those sweet device point breaks.

Figuring a base vigor of d8 and no other edges, you'll have your toughness up to 16 (6), so yeah... 32 points of damage to shake him, 40 to wound with a leading shot. Pretty sweet deal - I'd say you've got a pretty decent Iron Man right there. Good odds of shaking off artillery shots at that point, which is cool as hell.

What's most funny to me about this guy though, is that he's still nowhere close to breaking the game. Sure, he flies and tosses some mean punches, but his ability to hit in melee is average (which is supers for "really low") and only deals ~13 damage on the occasions when he hits. Shoot, that won't even *shake* most bricks, much less have a chance of wounding them.

If it were me going for indestructibility, I'd just drop 10-12 points into super vigor, and then pick up Hard to Kill. Luck at creation gives me 4 soak rolls per session (base), and since my average soak roll nets 2 raises, enemies are still going to have to hit for something like 24 to shake, or 28 to reliably wound. Even if (when) this guy is dropped to 3 wounds, they automatically raise on knockout blow checks, so can't actually be incapacitated until your enemies whittle down the vigor with temporary injuries.

Not quite up to your levels, of course, but that character'd have 18-20 more points to pick up powers that kill people.

Err, deal damage. Killing isn't very heroic.

[edit] Heck, we could give 'em the magical Ring of Invulnerability.

(16) Immunity, nearly complete coverage -> (12) requires activation -> (9) device.

Now we're getting sick!
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, yeah, a couple of the guys I play with, said they wouldn't even do Super Strength, but just drop like +4d6 or so in Melee Attack and give him a Maul or something similar to hit people with. I was thinking more straight up superman clone-ish though.
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AtomicTeaspoon
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that it matters on a technical level, but whats the trappings for the device-based super powers? Is he wearing a suit?
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrywhisenant wrote:
Yeah, I get the reasoning to do it other ways, my question though is "Is that what it really means?" Does every other attack, other than your vulnerability, only do half damage?


To answer this... pretty much. Not a whole lot of damage options that aren't energy or matter.
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, he's going to be a hero named Lightstone, who has a glowing gem embedded in his forehead, from which his powers originate. He'll be a flying superman type guy, with I imagine big glowing energy hands that are his melee attack. He flies, can survive space, and is pretty darned tough, except against darkness powers, hence his arch-enemy, Darkstone!
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrywhisenant wrote:
Well, he's going to be a hero named Lightstone, who has a glowing gem embedded in his forehead, from which his powers originate. He'll be a flying superman type guy, with I imagine big glowing energy hands that are his melee attack. He flies, can survive space, and is pretty darned tough, except against darkness powers, hence his arch-enemy, Darkstone!


I presume the gem can be removed, stolen, damaged, etc. so it qualifies as a Device?

Better hope Darkstone doesn't have Decay. Twisted Evil Wink
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, yeah, it can be removed, stolen, others can use it probably. Might be some sort of requirement as to their motivation and justification for using it, before it worked for someone: "they have to have light in their hearts" or something like that. I'm imagining that the "Lightstone" and the "Darkstone" are indestructible or virtually so, and maybe there is some organization behind these things out there, kind of a guardians of the universe sort of group. I haven't actually come up with a full background yet, just these little thoughts spinning around in my head.
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terrywhisenant
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightstone (Veteran 40 xp)
Agility d8, Smarts d8, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d12+4
Pace 8 (32 Flying), Parry 7, Toughness 17(6), Charisma +2
Skills: Fighting d10, Guts d6, Healing d6, Knowledge(Firefighting) d6, Notice d6, Persuasion d6, Survival d6
Edges: Two-Fisted, Fleet-Footed, Power Points x3
Hindrances: Enemy [Darkstone], Heroic, Loyal, Super Karma: Code of Honor
The Lightstone Gem(device): Flight (6pts/4pts Device), Super Vigor (6pts/4pts Device), Armor +6 Armor Points/Heavy (6pts/4pts Device), Melee Attack +4d6 (8pts/6pts Device), Immunity Complete [except against Darkness] (16pts/12pts Device)

Pretty fair character without breaking anything in the system. He's still plenty vulnerable to mental powers and taunts and other things of that nature, while being a good meat shield. One hit, without armor piercing, takes 34 points to Shake him, 42 to inflict 1 Wound, 50 to inflict 2 Wounds, and 58 to inflict 3 Wounds. I have rolled that high on damage frequently enough that I know he can still be taken down. In the future, I see Take the Hit and Combat Reflexes.
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Nick Zachariasen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terrywhisenant wrote:
Well, he's going to be a hero named Lightstone, who has a glowing gem embedded in his forehead, from which his powers originate. He'll be a flying superman type guy, with I imagine big glowing energy hands that are his melee attack. He flies, can survive space, and is pretty darned tough, except against darkness powers, hence his arch-enemy, Darkstone!


I'd say psionics qualifies, and arguably magic. What happens when you somehow deprive him of air?
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick Zachariasen wrote:
terrywhisenant wrote:
Well, he's going to be a hero named Lightstone, who has a glowing gem embedded in his forehead, from which his powers originate. He'll be a flying superman type guy, with I imagine big glowing energy hands that are his melee attack. He flies, can survive space, and is pretty darned tough, except against darkness powers, hence his arch-enemy, Darkstone!


I'd say psionics qualifies, and arguably magic. What happens when you somehow deprive him of air?


I submit that's covered by "surviving in space?"
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