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playing with damage rules of revised edition instead SWEX?

 
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Enpeze
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Vienna

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: playing with damage rules of revised edition instead SWEX? Reply with quote

one of my players came up with the experimental (in my eyes) opinion that he would like to use the revised damage model instead of WOTB. We play since 2 years SW, so we dont have experience how good the revised damage rules have been.

My question is for those old timers who experienced both damage systems: what are the practical playing differences of both damage systems? Is there an inherent problem with the old revised damage rules or why did pinnacle change it to WotB at all? Do the revised damage rules even have an advantage over WotB damage rules? Thanks as always for your info. Smile
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Sitting Duck
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One place where WotB has definitely improved things is with the Necessary Evil power Attack: Melee. Pre-SWEX what you did was make a Strength roll then add that to the result of the Attack power dice. With WotB you simply roll the Strength die with power dice.
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Clint
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17702

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: playing with damage rules of revised edition instead SWE Reply with quote

Enpeze wrote:
what are the practical playing differences of both damage systems?


Melee and ranged damage rolls will work completely differently. One being a modified Trait roll and the other being a standard damage roll. Meaning you have to keep track of the Wild Die for melee, and note that Bennies can be spent on melee damage (since it's a Trait roll) but not ranged damage. The No Mercy Edge might possibly need to be removed, but definitely revised for limited use with ranged attacks. And just in case, the house rule I use to allow Bennies to be spent on any damage rolls without No Mercy could not be used; the ability to spend Bennies on melee damage is one of the balancing factors versus ranged damage.

Oh, and the old Strength minimum rules will also have to be reintroduced to melee weapons since the current rules will no longer apply.

Enpeze wrote:
Is there an inherent problem with the old revised damage rules or why did pinnacle change it to WotB at all?


See all the exceptions above. Plus melee was just slightly underpowered compared to ranged damage and Toughness values (not much but a point or two). Not to mention, a Strength roll (even with a Wild Die) with a flat modifier has a significantly different curve of odds over two dice added together. While the effective average damage is still within that point or two, melee now has a more viable curve for higher damage results.

Oh, and it also has a viability for low damage results. We prefer a system where there is always a chance (however slim) a character might get hit and be able to shrug it off, get a minor scratch, etc. In short, where the damage doesn't beat Toughness. Even when rolling 2d10 is it possible (however rare) that a character could roll a 2 even when attacking a d4 Vigor Small character with a 3 Toughness. By the old rules, any character with a Str+4 weapon will always do at least 5 points of damage, meaning an unavoidable Shaken result on any character with a 5 or less Toughness. Even with a Wild Attack, the 2d10 could minimally have a 4, where the Str+4 has a minimum of 7. Consider the effect for a moment on a Wild Attack Sweep. Not much danger when at least Shaking every opponent is guaranteed.

One more thing, Extras. Since they don't have a Wild Die, the old rules basically penalized Extras twice for using melee. They don't get a Wild Die for their attack rolls, but they also don't get one for their damage either.

In essence, the current system makes damage use one coherent and better balanced system whether melee or ranged.

Enpeze wrote:
Do the revised damage rules even have an advantage over WotB damage rules?


I don't personally believe they do, but then, I'm also sure they might be advantageous to some specific group somewhere. Some people juggle geese, ya know. Wink
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Poor Wandering One
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Joined: 26 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excuse the noob question.

What is WotB?



I'll go and play with my Duplo now.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor Wandering One wrote:
Excuse the noob question.

What is WotB?


Way of the Brave. It was the name used for the Setting Rule in Deadlands: Reloaded that became the current standard for melee damage.
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CAM
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Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWEX damage rules are better in my opinion - it took way too long to hurt someone with a melee weapon beforehand, it was a bit of a grind for fantasy games. The new rules make sure that melee damage packs a punch, so to speak, which is much better for my Conan-esqe fantasy game.
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Enpeze
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Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Vienna

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for your very informative answers. Deep buried in my suspicious mind I probably was aware that there is a whole rat tail of problems if we dont play SwEX as written.

So not using WotB means

disadvantages:
-not as many possible damage results
-fewer explosions
-longer combat (which is strongly against the motto FFF if you ask me)
-melee is not as deadly while ranged combat stay deadly
-several egdes work not or differently
-stronger dependance on explosions of your main die especially if you fight high toughness monsters
-extras are not as efficient anymore


advantages (as far as I can see them)
-you only have to pick up a single dice which saves time and is pro FFF

No I know more. Thanks alot.
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