Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[The-Explore]

One of the things that bugged me when I went from GURPS to SW was that my clever character was not that clever anymore.
In Gurps he had a Smart 15 which gave him 95% chance to get a success.
In SW he had a smart d10 which gave him 85% compared the warriors had a smart 8 in Gurps 35% and d4 in SW which 63%
I do think that SW is the better of the two systems because it handle combat so well, but I can't help to fell that when you are a wild card, it doesn't fell like a big improvement when you increase you trait dice. As a result most PC will bu a new edge which every level up and will have so many edges when they become legendary that it is hard to rebember all of them.

My suggestion is to chance the wild dice so it is the same as the skill dice.
I don't think it will be harder to learn for newcommers, you just have to roll two of you trait and take the best instead of rolling a d6 whih every roll, so the game will still be easy to learn.

Extra-------d4-------d6-------d8-------d10-------d12
4+----------25%----50%-----63%-----70%------75%
8+----------6%------14%----13%-----30%-------42%

+d6--------d4-------d6-------d8-------d10-------d12
4+---------63%----75%-----81%------85%-----88%
8+---------19%----25%-----25%------38%-----50%

+dice-----d4--------d6-------d8-------d10--------d12
4+--------44%------75%----86%------91%------94%
8+--------12%------25%----23%------51%------66%

the total leap from a d4 to a d12 is about 50% for a extra this is only 25% in the normale system, but also 50% in this system.

All comments are welcome

[Winsling]

Well, you're making it different, but I'm not sure you're making it better. One of the features of the system is that it's built much more around edges than skills. As you observe, there's a pretty minimal improvement from d8-d10 range, so you might as well pick up Trademark Weapon, or Block.

I actually prefer it as is, because an edge based system promotes a greater diversity of character types - you aren't driven to get a d12 fighting before branching out.

[Gavinwulf]

Yes take a look at the Edges. Converting 'skill levels' from one system to SW is only half the conversion. Take a look at such Edges as 'Jack-of-all Trades' and 'Level-Headed' for Smart Characters.

Also note that a D6 in a trait with a D6 Wild Die, offers a 75% of success for the standard TN of 4. Your Smart character with a D10 in Smarts has an 85% for the standard success. Sure that may only be a 10% difference from a D6, but a mere +1 bonus from an Edge makes that 85% chance jump to 93%

And Finally remember the other half of SW's Dice Engine is not just making a specific TN but getting that Raise as well. Again your D10 Smarts guy has a 10% more chance of getting a Success w/ Raise compared to a D6 Smarts guy, but a +1 bonuse from an Edge makes you 25% more likely to get a Success w/Raise.

Many Edges grant a +2 bonus. In SW Edges are by far more integral to the game than 'ads/disads' in other games.

[chugosh]

I don't have any intelegent arguments to add, but no.

[The-Explore]

I am not sure that it is an imporvment, but I still think it is fun and important to toy which the idea and think about the arguments for and against.

It is good that edges are important and I still think that they would be so if you changed the system. I think that the biggest change would be for characters with a d4 in a skill. Now they have about the same change of succes as a extra with d8, with means that the smart character wouldn't have a much higer chance of compliting the check. It just seems weird when the stupid or weak character suddenly compliet a check much better with happens a lot.

[Magnus]

[Snate56]

Also, remembering edges isn't much of a problem if you "grew up" with the character. The main problem with forgetting happens when you generate and start a character at a much higher level.


SteveN
_________________
"We've got a blind date with destiny... and it looks like she's ordered the lobster." <The Shoveller>

[Wiggy]

[dentris]

And don't forget some edges have pretty high trait requirements, sometimes forcing you to increase a certain skill...reducing the number of edges accordingly.
_________________
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;
Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"
--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

[Clint]

[77IM]

Ninja'd by Clint! Here is the post I was taking too long to write...



I think this is an OK idea. I personally wouldn't use it because I am happy with the rules as-is, but I think if you make this change it won't break much, since it applies to PCs and NPCs equally. Here are the effects I foresee:

1. High Skill levels become more valuable relative to Edges (e.g., compare Block to just increasing your Fighting), so fewer Edge purchases.
2. High Skill levels require you to get high Attribute levels which further decreases Edges.
3. High Skill levels beyond your Attributes are more valuable than many low skill levels, so charters may become more focussed on a few skills, not having the points to purchase less important skills.
4. High Skill levels make it much more likely to achieve difficult tasks and to get raises. This makes combat more lethal in some ways (more hits, more damage) and less lethal in others (it's easier to soak wounds and dodge area attacks). Overall, expect more extreme results. For a variety of reasons, randomness tends to hurt the PCs more than help, so while this change may allow for some truly awesome stunts, it probably will also result in some very dead PCs.

So I think this idea could work but you may find the results even more "swingy" than normal SW, which I already regard as a somewhat swingy system (because of the Acing). I'd expect more character deaths, and heroes that are less well-rounded (and consequently stymied by trivial obstacles).

-- 77IM

[Cryonic]

Decided to try and help out the discussion overall. I spent a little time and create a chart and table that shows the probability of rolling a result if both the Trait and Wild Die are the same. The chart goes all the way up to 72 (5 rerolls on a D12, 7 on a D10, etc...).