Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Sharing Player Guide Pdf's

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
glacius
Novice


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Sharing Player Guide Pdf's Reply with quote

Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?

Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
inlife9
Veteran


Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

never mind. I was wrong.

Last edited by inlife9 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UmbraLux
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 774

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Sharing Player Guide Pdf's Reply with quote

glacius wrote:
Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?
Some (perhaps all, I'm uncertain) of Pinnacle's player guides contained a copyright statement allowing limited sharing. Look for that copyright statement! The material is (usually) copyrighted with some or all rights reserved. Legally, you need to abide by whatever legal restrictions they contain.

But seek legal advice (or default to 'all rights are reserved') if you're uncertain. I'm no lawyer.

Edit: Here's an example:
Deadlands PG wrote:
Great White Games hereby grants the Game Master a “site license” to print this document for each player in her personal game. No electronic transfer of this document is intended or implied. We thank you for your support, and hope that this license helps you preserve your book and better enjoy your game!
Note the print requirement among others...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaraldKlak
Seasoned


Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been wondering this too, thanks for clearing this up.

The explanation of NE players guide in the store is a tad confusing (mostly due to the deadlands stuff Wink ):

Quote:
Player's Guides
Our player's guides provide the first section of each of our Savage Settings and let players get all the information they need without revealing any GM secrets. Even better, the Deadlands: Reloaded Players' Guide contains a "site license" that lets you print a copy for each of your players so they'll have the rules they need for their heroes at their fingertips. Give 'em a Players' Guide, Marshal, and let your posse do the work!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17752

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Sharing Player Guide Pdf's Reply with quote

glacius wrote:
Hi guys I purchased the slipstream players guide and campaign guide for slipstream some time ago, I have a new online campaign getting ready to start. I recall reading somewhere that a GM can share the players guides with his players. Is this true? Where is the info on this?


As others have stated there is a Site License in the document that explains how it works. The license can typically be found on the first or second page immediately following the cover.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cryonic
Veteran


Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 920

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaraldKlak wrote:
I've been wondering this too, thanks for clearing this up.

The explanation of NE players guide in the store is a tad confusing (mostly due to the deadlands stuff Wink ):

Quote:
Player's Guides
Our player's guides provide the first section of each of our Savage Settings and let players get all the information they need without revealing any GM secrets. Even better, the Deadlands: Reloaded Players' Guide contains a "site license" that lets you print a copy for each of your players so they'll have the rules they need for their heroes at their fingertips. Give 'em a Players' Guide, Marshal, and let your posse do the work!


Actually that reads pretty clear to me since it explicitly states PRINT a copy for the players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HaraldKlak
Seasoned


Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cryonic wrote:
Actually that reads pretty clear to me since it explicitly states PRINT a copy for the players.


That was also my interpretation, but due to the fact that the entire section was speaking of a different game, made me consider that they hadn't been entirely thorough with the content.

The point was moreso that I was interested in a pdf to give to my players and not a print. The quote from Umbra undoubtly states that this is not a possibility with the site license. And the solution of printing it and them scanning it again is a bit much work.
So I'll just stick with using the old version and the new version I already have.

Generally speaking I believe the legal boundries of the license to be bit vague. Mind you, I don't think the intend of the rules a hard to understand, and abuse of the license would in most cases be painfully clear.
But my inherent interest in law (which might very well be tiresome to others Confused ) bids me to add a few comments. Do feel free not to read on.

The terms of GM and players might become a bit of a controversy. By letter of the license, one of my players isn't allowed to buy the players guide and print it for the rest, although I feel fairly confident that none of the legal interests would mind it.
More importantly is the differing wording between the store and the document, where the latter (by UmbraLux's quote) adds the line "in her personal game", by which the use of the printed documents is severely limited. As a buyer it is less than problematic that I am referred to finding my rights in the documents, if I am uncertain whether to buy it or not for the same reasons. Legally I am quite sure that the rights stated prior to the purchase will supercede any that are added afterward, otherwise the sale of the documents is based on a false premise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rohan
Veteran


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 841
Location: Silver Gryphon Head Quarters

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look at PDFs with the same light that I look at print copies. OF COURSE you're going to share them with your friends, lend them to your cousin in New Jersey, and kinda pass them around a little bit. The one thing about the electronic copy is that when you do that, they have a copy and they don't have to give it back.

Don't get me wrong, I want every single one of you to support your publishers and shell out your $1 - $30 dollars for whatever you're buying, whether it's mine or not. I want you to say "that file is SO cool that I'm going to give them money even though my GM has this PDF already."

But I don't expect it. Not really, not in an imperfect world.
_________________
Kevin Rohan, Content Director
www.silvergryphongames.com

Become a fan on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Silvergryphongames

Current WIP: Wellstone City Chronicles, Puppets, and One-liners
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Thasmodious
Seasoned


Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 322

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Rohan. The line between sharing print players guides for a live game and not sharing .pdf players guides for an online game is a fuzzy one at best, especially as so much gaming has moved online. What I can do in person, I expect to do online, including sharing the rules so my game can be played. Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option. Heck, it's easier to put everything on a zip drive with everyone having laptops and netbooks for face to face tabletop.
_________________
There's more than seventy earths spinning 'bout the galaxy and the meek have inherited not a one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17752

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thasmodious wrote:
Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option.


Well, in this case, I'd point out that the difference is that the site license does specifically disallow it.

Rohan wrote:
But I don't expect it. Not really, not in an imperfect world.


Maybe I'm optimistic, but I expect most people do follow the rules. Oh, I know everyone doesn't do it (trust me, I know), but I hope they are truly the minority. And even then, I don't expect most of that minority to ever pay for a Player's Guide in the first place.

But on the flipside, those that do give away files shouldn't expect publishers to ignore it and let it slide. There is a big difference between loaning a person a copy of a book and giving them their own copy, if in no other way than the latter is illegal (regardless of personal beliefs on the ethics of it). As noted in our rules on the forum, we consider such actions to be the ultimate form of disrespect, and it is one of the few things we consider potential grounds for immediate and permanent banning on our forums, whether it is our IP or someone else's.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Rohan
Veteran


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 841
Location: Silver Gryphon Head Quarters

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint, I'll give you all of that, and yes, I think people should pay for their own copies of things, site license or no site license. I'm just not always expecting that minority to do so...or ever expecting them to, really.
_________________
Kevin Rohan, Content Director
www.silvergryphongames.com

Become a fan on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Silvergryphongames

Current WIP: Wellstone City Chronicles, Puppets, and One-liners
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Vinzent
Veteran


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 837
Location: Seattle WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I provide only the character generation summaries (38-41, 48-53 of the SWEX) for my players. Since we started playing, 3 of my players have gone on to purchase their own books. The last 2 might start now that Star Wars Saga is dead (as they were saving all of their money for the next supplements).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Thasmodious
Seasoned


Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 322

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
Thasmodious wrote:
Once I've bought the .pdf, what is really the difference between making copies for my players and sending it to them versus sending them the .pdf, besides the hassle on my end with the first option.


Well, in this case, I'd point out that the difference is that the site license does specifically disallow it.


That's my point, though. The lines are fuzzy and don't really make sense. I understand why it is that way now, but I am lamenting that the publishing/copyright/fair use issues haven't really gelled with the way that gaming has evolved online. I can give my face to face players a wealth of information for my game legally, but I can't give it to my online group, even though the use (from my end) is exactly the same. It's different from the publishers end because digital product is being distributed, and I understand that. But I'm not a publisher, and as such I'm a bit more concerned about the user end and about how consumer rights take a hit when we are talking digital.
_________________
There's more than seventy earths spinning 'bout the galaxy and the meek have inherited not a one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Angle
Veteran


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 670
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do share a PDF with other members of your game group, the least you can do is admonish them that if they like it, they should buy their own copy and delete yours. Not everyone will do it, of course, but decent people probably will.

I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.

Steve
_________________
"When choosing between two evils, I always pick the one I haven't tried before." -- Mae West
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jpk
Legendary


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 2239
Location: Tazewell, East Tennessee, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Angle wrote:
I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.

I would like to invite you to get fairly tipsy and browse the Pinnacle web store at your earliest convenience.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coyote6
Seasoned


Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Angle wrote:
I have the opposite problem, actually. I have so many gaming PDFs on file (hundreds, literally) that I tend to run across something interesting and buy it, only to realize later that I already had it. If that was a hard copy, I could resell it to someone and recoup some of my stupid loss. With a watermarked PDF, I'm just stuck with it. Cie la sottise.


We are brothers! I've done that before. Wish I could transfer the PDF to a buddy or something; it ought to be legal, since I bought two copies. Alas...
_________________
--
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum