Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Blogotron]

I have toyed with this since Mike Mearls introduced Iron Heroes to D20 (Malhavok press) wherein combats are supposed to be set in active environments (a working mill, an unstable scree field, etc).

Recently people have asked about using D20's Bull Rush/Over Run mechanics in SW but I say take it one step farther. In cinematic duels combatants never stand should to shoulder slugging it out until someone takes a lethal hit. They maneuver for position, lunge, force oppoents into obstructions etc. I am just sick of base to base combat that involves unimaginative agility/smarts tricks.

Here are some rather simple rules (inspired by ORE by Greg Stolze)

Beginning on the second round of combat the GM Rolls a 1d8 for any combatants that are in base-to-base contact. A ONE indicates behind the GM-controlled adversary continuing clockwise.
The initiative card Indicates both distance and rotation.
Distance is indicated by the Face value of the card, 2-6=1", 7-10=2", Jack through King=3" and Ace/Joker= 4"
Rotation is Indicated by Suit, Spades Counter Clockwise(From GM-control), Hearts Clockwise (from PC), Clubs or Diamonds no rotation.

Obstacles would force an Agility check to avoid. Moving into occupied spaces would require a Fighting Check.

Several edges could be developed to take advantage of the dymanic combat movements: Distance control, rotation control, directional control, Penalties to avoid obstacles etc.

[Merlin_Sylver]

Perhaps I am being obtuse...

Is this about battles roving all over the place, ala Three Musketeers? If so, then there are already several edges built into the system that allow for that. No, most swashbucklers don't stand and fight, but most berserkers do (so long as there is something to destroy within reach). If the character is a swashbuckler, then there are several edges to make his movement around the map worthwhile.

Also, I thought that the combat round was movement and actions all basically simultaneously. Thus, you don't 'run up to the monster and attack', instead you 'run toward the monster, blade swinging in a mighty arc as I move'. Instead of 'I swing and try to retreat', it's 'I take a couple of swipes with my sword tip as I back away from my opponent'.

If your players are using the same old boring Agility and Smarts tricks, then shake it up some. Start giving out bennies or special, narrative effects of tricks that are imaginitive and fun.

I love dynamic settings, but they can be a bit hard to pull off without some imaginative players to take up a bit of slack. Instead of coming up with a whole new (and seemingly combat dragging) system, simply make some basic rulings about the environment. If they group is fighting in a molten lava lake, jumping from rock to rock, then make them make a Vigor roll each round for Fatigue (from the heat), maybe make them make Agility rolls to stay firmly footed with each attack they make. If the scene involves a windmill, try to get your enemies to 'corral' the players toward the spinning 'blades'... if a figure gets in the way of the blades, then simply have them make an Agility roll to avoid, maybe with penalties if the blades are swinging particularly quickly.

[Chezzo]

I understand what you're trying to do, but not how you're going about doing it.

I love the idea of having dynamic combat settings. Like in the game Robo Rally, characters could be in a factory, complete with conveyor belts, saws, and packing robots. Perhaps a damsel could be attached to the conveyor belt, and narrowly misses being packed into a tuna fish can, but she'll never escape the furnace unless the characters can get to her!

As far as the unimaginative smarts/agility tricks go, set the rooms of your encounters full of possible agility/smarts tricks. Have the room the mage is in full of bookcases that can be knocked down. Have the chandelier tied to the wall, so the characters can either use it to swing into combat, or release it with disastrous results. Have there be a rug, and candelabras, and braziers that can be tricked with. In a more dungeon setting, have there be stalactites and stalagmites that can be knocked on the enemy, have there be portcullises that can be lowered onto the enemy, and caves that can be caved in.

Let the characters use the traps you set up in the dungeon against their opponents. I remember in a HoE game, I threw a Raider into a trip wire I found that led to a few claymores. He died.

Print out Whispers from the Pit #7 and make the characters use it.

I don't ever use a trick without describing it. I'm not even sure if I'm allowed. But I have a really great GM that fills his rooms full of fun stuff for me to trick with.

Wiggy gives some interesting dynamic combat scenarios in his Toyland: The Battle of Christmas Eve adventure. In it, your characters must stop the Mujafuzzeen from flooding the house by blowing up a full bath.

[UmbraLux]

[Blogotron]

Actually both combatants move. They remain in contact at all times. Those who are not in base to base contact have no impetus or restrictions to movement.

This only takes effect where movement is A: possible or B: relevant (i.e one on one combat on a featureless plane would make such rules moot).

You are correct, i did not allow a static combat round.

Amended: Distance is indicated by the Face value of the card, 2-6=0", 7-10=1", Jack through King=2" and Ace/Joker= 3"

It is no more an instant teleport than current movement and can't take effect unless there has been no movement from either combatant.

In any case I am going to try it out during our next game and am looking at whether i trips up the game or not.

[shadd4d]

I've thought about it and wondered if this could be a setting rule: If you are mano e mano with a single figure, on your turn the two of you can move your pace or the other figure's, whichever is lowest. It's only a "larval" setting rule as it needs some language to prevent someone from moving to the edge of pit and spinning to auto-kill an opponent. My other ideas would possible be 2 edges, a starter and a + version, in which you "drag" 1 opponent with you when you move and 2 with the + version. Something like:

Swashbuckler (N, Agl d8, Fighting d
If in hand-to-hand combat and base contact with 1 opponent, you may take them with you when you move. They do not get a free attack; the pair of you instead move as a unit your basic pace or your opponents, whichever is lower. You cannot run. The opponent will not allow you to move into environmental hazards, traps, etc.

Improved Swashbuckler (V, Swashbuckler, Florentine)
As swashbuckler, but you may now move 2 opponents.

These may not be suitable for all settings. Maybe someone should try using the grapple attack to tackle or attempt a knockback. And be aware that this edge might also be in an NPC's repertoire, which is sort of what makes me think it might be better as a setting rule, if it jives with the setting.

I'm wondering though if you're hitting the barrier between what combat is supposed to mirror (a rough and tumble fight) and what really happens (turn-based combat) which aren't 1:1 reflections of each other. While persons don't stand still in cinematic duels, they unfortunately do in RPG games, unless you're LARPing. It's a system constraint.

I second Chezzo's idea of Robo-Rally, mostly because the rules therein is how I'd depict and explain dynamic environments, such as the factory fight at the end of both Terminator Films, the factory fight in Episode II, the fight in the mine in Temple of Doom, the climax of the Great Mouse Detective and other fights with moving floors, machinery and other objects moving independent of the characters. Maybe certain portions of the floor (a conveyor belt) add to pace or move characters at the beginning or ending of a round.

As a final thought, I'd also maybe mention it as a pre-game before you guys start, so that your group might be more creative in their tricks or bet more heavily on their use.

Don
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Don

"But there is a difference between fear and horror. An important difference.
Fear is when you worry about what might be.
Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01

[Blogotron]

Unfortunately we did not get to the Cliff-side fights that I wanted to use these rules for in last weeks game.

I am thinking that rather than Edges I will just uses tricks and maneuvers to control the flow of combat.

[Lord Inar]

I love Triple Ace Games: Perilous Places... http://tripleacegames.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4&products_id=9 for rules on unique situations.

...and also I might suggest that Sherwood (link below) has a whole section on expanded Agility tricks, if that's up your ally.
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Lord Inar