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Chezzo
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Boldfist
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 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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We've been allowing sawed off shotguns in Melee since we first played Zombie Run when it originally came out. Remember, you can use a katana repeatedly without reloading. You only get two shots with that sawed off shotgun!
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SlasherEpoch
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, you get two shots.
But two shots that deal 3d6 and usually 4d6 damage might be all you need...
Now put some slugs in that sucker. 2d10+1d6 on a raise?
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philth
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| HOLY SMOKES...ruled this a no at my table before....can't wait 4 the looks I'm going to get when I announce this. |
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Clint
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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One big difference (other than limited shots), it isn't a melee weapon. So the character using it is an Unarmed Defender against a foe who does have a real melee weapon.
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Chezzo
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Magnus
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | One big difference (other than limited shots), it isn't a melee weapon. So the character using it is an Unarmed Defender against a foe who does have a real melee weapon. |
Hmm... Shouldn't a pistol be considered a melee weapon for the purpose of Unarmed Defender? I mean it's basically a tiny club, and the opponent might not know if it is loaded or not ("Do you feel lucky, punk?")...
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shadd4d
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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No...following the logic is that you're still unarmed (wow, can't wait to regale my players with this one) but it's of a size usable (i.e. fireable) in a melee.
Hmm, following that logic, I guess my Necropolis 2350 players are in a lot better position vis-a-vis the corporate soldiers and mercenaries than I thought.
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Magnus
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| shadd4d wrote: | No...following the logic is that you're still unarmed (wow, can't wait to regale my players with this one) but it's of a size usable (i.e. fireable) in a melee.
Hmm, following that logic, I guess my Necropolis 2350 players are in a lot better position vis-a-vis the corporate soldiers and mercenaries than I thought. |
Yeah, my argument don't hold water, 'cause that way a rifle would be considered a melee weapon. Just checking.... 
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Virgobrown72
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm seeing a lot of xtra splattage in my gaming future...  |
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Karnaze
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: | | shadd4d wrote: | No...following the logic is that you're still unarmed (wow, can't wait to regale my players with this one) but it's of a size usable (i.e. fireable) in a melee.
Hmm, following that logic, I guess my Necropolis 2350 players are in a lot better position vis-a-vis the corporate soldiers and mercenaries than I thought. |
Yeah, my argument don't hold water, 'cause that way a rifle would be considered a melee weapon. Just checking.... |
A rifle could be considered a melee weapon. It is possible to use a rifle similarly to a staff, or a spear if a bayonet is affixed. I would not give the +1 parry from a staff or spear, but as long as they are not trying to fire the rifle, I wouldn't consider them unarmed. Of course, if the rifle is modern enough to have plastic or composite components it might not fare well if struck with a heavy melee weapon. |
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dap6000
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| i'd use a house rule edge to allow gun wielders to no longer count as unarmed in melee. i've seen other systems call it "gun fu". |
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shadd4d
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dap6000 wrote: | | i'd use a house rule edge to allow gun wielders to no longer count as unarmed in melee. i've seen other systems call it "gun fu". |
Depends on the setting, but it re-creates that sort of problem with the sawed-off shotgun in the middle of the melee. Actually, the martial artist edge in DL:R as well as another edge in the modern martial arts supplement does the same thing.
Remember, the wonderful thing with edges is whatever a player has, so can a villainous wild card (or extra in some cases).
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Fear is when you worry about what might be.
Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01 |
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Chezzo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
A rifle could be considered a melee weapon. It is possible to use a rifle similarly to a staff, or a spear if a bayonet is affixed. I would not give the +1 parry from a staff or spear, but as long as they are not trying to fire the rifle, I wouldn't consider them unarmed. Of course, if the rifle is modern enough to have plastic or composite components it might not fare well if struck with a heavy melee weapon. |
I think I'd make a fella have an edge for that.
This is my rifle, this is my gun
Requirements: Novice, d6 Agility, d6 Strength
A character with this edge can use a rifle as a Str+d6 weapon. With a bayonet, it becomes Str+d8. They are no longer considered an unarmed defender.
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Cryonic
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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No need for an edge. If you're holding the gun to club someone, then you aren't holding it to shoot them. And it isn't hard to switch between those modes (free action), but don't expect to get the benefits of both parts of the gun in one round.
As to "gun fu", that breaks down really fast against guys with daggers who are willing to get in close with you and have a similar skill. Rule #1 in a knife fight, you will get cut. A gun is only useful if you can keep hold of it and it has ammo, else it is just a small club. |
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Virgobrown72
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | This is my rifle, this is my gun
Requirements: Novice, d6 Agility, d6 Strength
A character with this edge can use a rifle as a Str+d6 weapon. With a bayonet, it becomes Str+d8. They are no longer considered an unarmed defender. |
I like this!!! I'm gonna steal it!!!
Yoink!!! |
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Boldfist
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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We've always treated a rifle as an Improvised Weapon in Melee. You can use it to club someone at a -1 to Fighting but it cannot be used to shoot someone in Melee. It does Str+d4 (the same as a baton/billy club). You still count as an Unarmed Defender. Then we typically allow the Improvisational Fighter Edge from Solomon Kane to negate the -1 penalty and allow you to be counted as Armed. We also refer to it as the "Jackie Chan" Edge!
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Clint
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Allowing it as an improvised weapon would be fine, but that falls outside the core rules, which was all I was working from.
And a rifle with a bayonet is a melee weapon as well. Bayonets are pretty awesome things.
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Boldfist
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | And a rifle with a bayonet is a melee weapon as well. Bayonets are pretty awesome things. |
Yep. Although very rarely used in a modern game, they work wonders in earlier time periods.
A bayonet on a rifle increases the damage to Str+d6, Parry +1 and a Reach of 1". It's a mini-spear!
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GranFalloon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Cryonic wrote: | | Rule #1 in a knife fight, you will get cut. |
Eh... the Warrior's Edge Knife Fighting training video from Cold Steel would argue differently. Keep the fight at "long range," which, with knives, is uncomfortably close to "short range."
Note that it ain't me sayin' this, 'cause I don't knife fight. |
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