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New Magic system

 
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Gryffen88
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: New Magic system Reply with quote

Is there any place that I can find different options for using magic? I want to use something other than magic power points but don't want to make my own, as I am sure there are plenty that have been done and tested.
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few in Shark Bytes (see sig below).
You don't have to sign up to go to Downloads.
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Harboe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standard rules...
Necessary Evil uses a different one.
Sharkbytes have some...
I've seen some for Call of Cthulhu conversions...

What do you want for YOUR magic system?
High-magic, low-magic, dangerous magic, common magic?
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Noshrok Grimskull
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solomon Kane uses a magic system without Power Points, Deadlands Reloaded has some different angles on magic for the various Arcane Backgrounds, and from what I hear the upcoming Hellfrost from TAG will also have a new look at magic.
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Gryffen88
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I am looking for is a system in which I don't have to remember when to give back PPs. I want it to medium to high for fantasy type magic.
I will see what I can find in Sharkbytes
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Wiggy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellfrost indeed has no Power Points. Spells are generally instant or active until disrupted or the caster falls unconscious (so no bookkeeping). However, there is a balance--mages risk the Siphoning, and clerics have their sin list.

For a medium to high fantasy world, just remove those balances.
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CAM
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Magic Without Power Points Reply with quote

I agree with you, magic with Power Points doesn't feel right for this system.
Powers with Power Points for Weird Science work okay, as Power Points equate well to 'Cell Points'. For Spellcasting it seems far too mechanical however, a throwback to games like Runequest or Rolemaster (great games, but far too simulationist for these rules).

I agree that the Sharkbytes article is worth a good look, but I feel the most appropriate official magic system comes from the Solomon Kane rules. The upcoming Hellfrost seems to follow this idea as well (or a variation) so it will also be a good product to have so you can use its magic system (the setting looks cool as well).
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ronin3338
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have converted Shadowrun for my group, and we do magic like this:

The mage does not have any Power Points.
Mage makes the roll to cast as normal.
The mage then resists "Drain", because in Shadowrun magic is cast by channeling mana through the caster's physical body. The way I do it is that the mage essentially makes a Soak roll, using the PP of the spell as the number of wounds and rolling either Spirit or Smarts (because it's Shadowrun, another Trait may work better for your game, like Vigor), and each "wound" he takes causes a Fatigue. If the level of the spell is higher than the caster, then it causes a Wound.

Basically, mages can cast all they want, but run the risk of fatiguing or injuring themselves each time they do, especially with more powerful spells.
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Noshrok Grimskull
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you run spells that can be maintained for X Power Points per Y time increment?
And what about those PP intensive spells like a 3d6 LBT Blast, Invisibility, Shape Change or (*gasp*) Greater Healing? Trying to soak a potential 5 - 20 wounds sounds like no fun.
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ronin3338
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maintained spells last the minimum time, but there is a modifier to all other rolls based on the number of spells being maintained, and there is another downside involving being active on the astral plane, but it's setting specific. If the mage wants it to last longer, then

That's a good question, and one that hasn't come up in my game, so I'll have to consider those effects for non-Shadowrun magic...

As far as the big spells, basically those are typically only going to be cast by higher level characters, and you will also have Edges that modify the roll for Drain. Honestly though, I don't remember any spells that cost 20 PP...
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Noshrok Grimskull
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greater Healing at its second setting (the one that allows you to heal nonpermanent Crippling Injuries) costs 20 PP.

ronin3338 wrote:
If the mage wants it to last longer, then

Then... what? Stopping mid-sentence is kinda cruel.Wink
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Clint
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noshrok Grimskull wrote:
Greater Healing at its second setting (the one that allows you to heal nonpermanent Crippling Injuries) costs 20 PP.


Actually that allows healing Permanent Crippling Injuries.
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Noshrok Grimskull
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whooops. Embarassed
That's what I meant. Guess my mind was already someplace else while I was typing... No surprise there, just look at my location. #Silly
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ronin3338
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the cut off sentence! Embarassed My mind was someplace else too!

There's no additional PP cost for maintaining it longer, but the mage has to decide when it's cast if it's being sustained. (Change from Shadowrun, but simpler)
If it's not, then it runs it's course and it's done. If it is, then they keep the energy flowing and there is a negative modifier to ALL tasks of -1 (I may change to -2) for each spell being sustained.

I hadn't considered Greater Healing because in SR, all magical healing must be done within an hour. Any healing after that must be natural or via medical treatment.
I didn't see any other spells in the main rule book that had crippling PP costs.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronin3338 wrote:
I didn't see any other spells in the main rule book that had crippling PP costs.


Well, there are a few with variable costs that could be tricky by that system. Basically it seems any power with a cost of 5 or more is very likely to Incapacitate a mage when cast as they would need two raises on a Soak roll (a 12 or better without penalties) to only take two levels of Fatigue.

So it could impact powers like Barrier where it is 1 PP per 1" covered, Beast Friend where it is 3 + 2x Size PPs, Shape Change with a cost from 3-7, or Teleport with a cost of 3 PPs/10".

Maybe it didn't come up as I'd bet the 1-2 PP powers really rule by that system (ooo, especially Bolt if multiple bolts were handled individually; Soaking three 1PP shots would be tons easier than Soaking one 3PP one).

Anyway, just noticed cause the same thing came up when doing that conversion as well for the first Shark Nibbles. That's another option for a PP-less magic system the original poster might look into (available at Shark Bytes).
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ronin3338
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I guess the conversion doesn't work so well for a general system.

Barrier is cast as a bubble around the mage, and though it can be enlarged it usually isn't.
It's an urban setting, so Beast Friend would really apply only to rats, cats, dogs or pigeons...
Shape Change was hard for anyone who wasn't actually a shapeshifter, so none of my players ever took it
Shadowrun doesn't have Teleport.

I will definitely go back and tweak some more... Sorry if it didn't really help the OP, but I really appreciate the feedback!
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