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Boldfist
Heroic
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 1209
Location: Cleveland, OH
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 Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: [Shaintar] General spell questions & War of Flame |
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Do scrolls & spellbooks exist in the Shaintar world? If so, any rules for writing and/or using them? Learning new spells by studying them? Adding to a Knowledge roll or somesuch? Perhaps an Arcane Artificer can write a scroll or book?
The Summon spell. I'm assuming it's all or nothing. So if you want to summon a Demon Lord you spend 20 Power Points and make your roll. If you fail he doesn't come and if you succeed (4) he shows up for 3 rounds. No additional effect with a Raise? We've been playing that if you get a raise the creature is a Wild Card but that's not mentioned in the spell description. Also, even with Ritual Casting the summoned creatures will at most be around for 30 minutes. What if you maintain the spell? For one Power you can maintain the Demon Lord for another 10 minutes? Do you pay the -1 to casting to maintain it? If so, that could get very difficult with multiple summonings for NPCs. Even with the Summoner Edge.
How do they stay in Shaintar? If you head back to the other world after the spell is over, how are there "wandering" creatures like Ratzin and Minotaurs?
Final thought on Summoned creatures. If they must return when the spell is over, why give them Regeneration (Slow) since it takes a full day to use that Special Ability? I'm assuming its for healing if they can somehow stay in Shaintar? But again, I don't know how that's possible.
So one answer could be that when the "gates of hell" open during the War of Flame these creatures walk out right? So where are the gates located? And how are they opened? As a GM I'm starting to need some more specific information about the War of Flame and how it all happens. I know it's my campaign and I can do whatever I want but I'd like to have the official word.
Thanks!
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Norm "No Relation" Hensley |
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Clint
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: [Shaintar] General spell questions & War of Flame |
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| Boldfist wrote: | | Even with the Summoner Edge. |
I'm not Sean, but I think this is kind of answered in the first sentence (and paragraph) in the GM to GM section on Summoner on page 179. 
| Boldfist wrote: | | How do they stay in Shaintar? If you head back to the other world after the spell is over, how are there "wandering" creatures like Ratzin and Minotaurs? |
I'd figure the same as above, but also (unofficially again), it sounds exactly like the result of a critical failure to end up summoning a creature permanently and have no control over it. But of course the exact effect of a critical failure depends on the GM.
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
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Boldfist
Heroic
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 1209
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I know... plot device and all that. But experienced players like to have answers and not hand waves. They'd also like to be able to use the Summoner Edge themselves (which I haven't allowed yet).
But thanks for the reply Clint!
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Norm "No Relation" Hensley |
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Clint
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Boldfist wrote: | | But experienced players like to have answers and not hand waves. |
Hmm, I might suggest "some players" like that, not necessarily that it is a function of experienced ones. I've seen too many examples of the opposite point of view and play style in very experienced gamers. It's just a preference, but the important thing is to do exactly what you are doing and address the group's preference and work with it.
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Clint Black
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Boldfist
Heroic
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 1209
Location: Cleveland, OH
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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An excellent point. I should have said "my players" and not experienced players. As not all experienced players are as opposed to not having answers as mine are.
I'm still looking for answers to the other questions though...
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Norm "No Relation" Hensley |
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Heroic
Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 1552
Location: Huntsville, AL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: [Shaintar] General spell questions & War of Flame |
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| Boldfist wrote: | | Do scrolls & spellbooks exist in the Shaintar world? If so, any rules for writing and/or using them? Learning new spells by studying them? Adding to a Knowledge roll or somesuch? Perhaps an Arcane Artificer can write a scroll or book? |
Nope, no scrolls or spellbooks in the "traditional D&D" sense. Just one of those things I never really incorporated, mostly as a subtle means of making Shaintar different. There are books that people learn things from, especially dealing with elaborate rituals and such, but Sorcerers generally learn from a combination of study and practice with accomplished instructors.
| Quote: | | The Summon spell. I'm assuming it's all or nothing. So if you want to summon a Demon Lord you spend 20 Power Points and make your roll. If you fail he doesn't come and if you succeed (4) he shows up for 3 rounds. No additional effect with a Raise? |
The Summon power is, frankly, powerful enough without giving any effect for Raises.
| Quote: | | We've been playing that if you get a raise the creature is a Wild Card but that's not mentioned in the spell description. |
I don't have any particular objection to that, but again, it has proven out that Summon is pretty damned powerful as it is.
| Quote: | | Also, even with Ritual Casting the summoned creatures will at most be around for 30 minutes. What if you maintain the spell? For one Power you can maintain the Demon Lord for another 10 minutes? Do you pay the -1 to casting to maintain it? If so, that could get very difficult with multiple summonings for NPCs. Even with the Summoner Edge. |
I tend to disagree, but you could add in the idea that Summoner removes the Maintenance Penalty for Summoning.
| Quote: | | How do they stay in Shaintar? If you head back to the other world after the spell is over, how are there "wandering" creatures like Ratzin and Minotaurs? |
There are two ways that Childer end up in Shaintar; the first is using the Summon Power (which is temporary, yes), and the second is using Cauldrons, which are essentially confluences of mystical energy that can be ritually opened to bring Childer in from Norcan Darr. Whenever someone crosses through a Cauldron, they are not summoned, and therefore pretty much will remain in Shaintar from then on (unless sent back through a Cauldron later).
Note that this pretty applies strictly to Childer; there are very few actual Demons in Norcan Darr, which means they are rarely brought through the typical Cauldrons.
However, there are particularly powerful (and much more rare) Cauldrons that can be opened at certain times that will reach into the Abyss, allowing Demons to come through by that means. Whenever something like this is about to happen, that's when Heroes really need to step up and stop it. The alternative is... bad.
| Quote: | | Final thought on Summoned creatures. If they must return when the spell is over, why give them Regeneration (Slow) since it takes a full day to use that Special Ability? I'm assuming its for healing if they can somehow stay in Shaintar? But again, I don't know how that's possible. |
As explained, it is possible they stay around. And some do end up in Norcan Darr, temporarily or permanently.
As well, they have a life and existence in the Abyss, and one never knows if the Heroes might not find themselves there one day...
| Quote: | | So one answer could be that when the "gates of hell" open during the War of Flame these creatures walk out right? So where are the gates located? And how are they opened? As a GM I'm starting to need some more specific information about the War of Flame and how it all happens. I know it's my campaign and I can do whatever I want but I'd like to have the official word. |
As stated, there are confluences of mystical energy lines that criss-cross Shaintar. Recently, they've become more notable and prevalent. Yes, they are in effect "ley lines." They are called "Filaments," and where they cross are called "Loci."
The more Filaments converge at a Locus, the more powerful a Cauldron can be opened (or other ritual attempted).
No, there is not a map of these - in this way, GMs can decide where and how powerful the nearest Loci are for their stories.
And, yes, a whole bunch of these Filaments appeared at the time of Ceynara's awakening, thus allowing a number of Cauldrons to be opened both into Norcan Darr and the Abyss.
You're welcome; good questions all. Going to repost this into the Talisman forums to share this info.
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Sean Patrick Fannon
Evil Beagle Games
The FREE Shaintar Player's Guide
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Sean Patrick Fannon
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