Username:    Password:      Remember me       
Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Discussion Forum for PEG/GWG
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Can someone confirm my thoughts on how tricks are usefull
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JesterOC
Novice


Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Can someone confirm my thoughts on how tricks are usefull Reply with quote

I am going to run my first Savage worlds game. It is going to be a pirate game although at the moment I only have the core rulebook. I have a question about tricks.

My understanding is that a trick will reduce the opponents parry by 2, until the opponent's next turn. So if the players are fighting an opponent one player can trick it, and the others can hit it more easily.

However the only way you get a direct beneffit from the trick is if you get to attack before the opponents next turn (which boils down to the luck of the draw). Is this right?

If you use multiple actions, you may perform the trick, but if you do succeed, all it does is negate the negative modifier from performing two actions. To get any benifit to hit, you still need to be lucky on the next turn.

As I am writting this I realize that if you attack the opponent first, the opponent will loose the penalty when its turn comes up! So in order to have a chance for the trick to benefit you, you need to hold your trick until after the opponent attacks.

Does that sound right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kind of!

First:
A trick has a chance to Shake the opponent, too. Being Shaken will likely cost him his action as he tries to recover, may cause him to lose more than one action, and makes him easier to injure.

Second:
A Trick can be *combined* with an attack, incurring a -2 MAP to both. Well, there's lots of bonuses you can get to Tricks to get rid of that penalty, and the -2 to the attack and the -2 to Parry cancel each other out.... except that the Trick has that chance to leave the target Shaken, again.

Third:
Tricks not only have mechanical effects, but also in-game effects. You can trip, or push, or move through, or whatever - all of those are just Trappings on the trick that come from your description.

Fourth:
Moving first isn't just luck of the draw. There are a number of effects that can make you going first *more likely*, even if there are no guarantees.

Finally:
Yes, assuming you do not Shake the opponent, you do not combine the Trick with an attack, you do not have a descriptive effect you want, and you do not have any other allies nearby, then a Trick is only useful if you move after an opponent in one round and then before him in the next.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17704

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's pretty much correct. Tricks are not designed to easily benefit the user without some outside influence; that's why they are "free."

It's more of a group benefit; a way for the agile rogue or the intelligent scientist, neither of whom were "combat-designed" characters to participate in combat and help.

To get a direct benefit (outside of luck) usually takes some outside influence like an Edge to make a Trick more beneficial to the user. For instance, Quick or Level Headed makes it more likely to go before the opponent the next round.

For a set tactic to gain a direct benefit to the character using it, that falls under Tests of Will, which requires buying a skill.

Basically (outside of luck or Bennies) and in the absolute most general terms...

Helping others = Free
Helping yourself = Cost
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JesterOC
Novice


Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses guys. I just picked up the book a few days ago, and I am going to have everyone build characters for Savage Worlds instead of our usual game of DnD 4e this Sunday. No one but me has heard of the SW so I am trying to learn all I can to make the day go as smoothly as possible.

Clint, that was what I was thinking. You can't have it so easy that everyone does it all of the time. All in all it looks like a great rule because of it's flexability.

I forgot that tests of will where different than tricks. I have basically been cramming for Game day this Sunday and some of the rules are getting mixed up in my head.

And thanks Tuesday for the detailed post.
Yes I forgot about the shake aspect, thanks for reminding me.

As I only have the basic core rules, I don't see anywhere where trip, pushing, or moving through can be used, is this in the Pirate of the Spanish Main book (I asked about that in another thread but I did not get a response yet.)

Without giving out too much info, can you give me an idea of how it works?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're just part of the description. My "Agility Trick" might be to put you off balance and trip you, or to get you staggering. My "Smarts Trick" might be to pretend I'm getting out of the way of something coming from behind you, causing you to do the same - but when you move to follow me, you bang into a knee-high coffee table or something.

Smarts trick: I put my back to a window, then I duck and suddenly the sun is in your eyes, blinding you. Well, hey, if that works, you take -2 to your Parry and are maybe Shaken, but it also might work BETTER on someone who is light-sensitive, or it might give a bonus to the guy who sets off a camera flash in your face next round as you're trying to recover.

It's all in the description. Don't get too carried away with nonmechanical effects, but remember that "-2 Parry" and "Shaken" can take a lot of forms, and some of those might lead to further consequences in the setting. It's the difference between "I use an Agility Trick" versus "as I'm getting up, I toss a handful of sand in his eyes!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clint
Site Admin


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17704

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JesterOC wrote:
I forgot that tests of will where different than tricks. I have basically been cramming for Game day this Sunday and some of the rules are getting mixed up in my head.


It might help to download the Combat Survival Guide from the website. It lists the main tactics of SW and when they are most useful and for whom. It's also a great resource for new players to know how the system is affected by their choices in combat.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SlasherEpoch
Legendary


Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 5625
Location: Off stage left

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some combat actions that don't have any other defined purpose are Tricks as well:

"I cut the minotaur's eyebrow with my rapier, causing blood to fly in his eyes, imparing his vision!"

Agility vs. Agility Trick. Uses a weapon, but it's not to do damage, it's to throw him off.

"I quickly toss my knife back and forth between my hands, so the sorceress doesn't know where to block."

Agility vs. Smarts.

"I rush towards the thief and slide tackle him so that everyone can catch up."

Agility vs. Agility. As a bonus, were I GMing, I would say that the thief is knocked prone if the Trick succeeds.
_________________
Proud Savagepedia contributor.

Evil Wig Enterprises Minion #15 - "The
Machete"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Wiggy
Legendary


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 5747
Location: TAG me. I dare you!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone got a copy of the Whispers article about Tricks they could send the original poster? That explained a lot of this and included extra examples.
_________________
Wiggy
Creative Director Triple Ace Games
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
UmbraLux
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 773

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiggy wrote:
Anyone got a copy of the Whispers article about Tricks they could send the original poster? That explained a lot of this and included extra examples.
I've got a copy. Question for you, will you be writing more? Smile

JesterOC - PM me with your email if you'd like me to send it to you. It's just under a megabyte.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sadric
Heroic


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 1107

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
Some combat actions that don't have any other defined purpose are Tricks as well:

"


"I throw my chain whip around this beam and swing, hitting the animated Kali-statue at the chest and knock her down the stairs"

Was a succesfull trick in my last Rippers adventure.
And he get moved three squares down the stairs and was shaken. It was a trip/pushing without much rules (like in D&D Smile ).

If you intend to design a character that use tricks like this often give them the Acrobat Edge, it gives them+2 on tricks (and other acrobatic actions).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Wiggy
Legendary


Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 5747
Location: TAG me. I dare you!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UmbraLux wrote:
Wiggy wrote:
Anyone got a copy of the Whispers article about Tricks they could send the original poster? That explained a lot of this and included extra examples.
I've got a copy. Question for you, will you be writing more? Smile

JesterOC - PM me with your email if you'd like me to send it to you. It's just under a megabyte.


Writing more Whispers? Unlikely, I'm afraid. I no longer work for PEG.
_________________
Wiggy
Creative Director Triple Ace Games
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JesterOC
Novice


Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Thanks UmbraLux Reply with quote

Thanks UmbraLux,

I got the pdf. It really helped.

JesterOC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joshuaslater
Seasoned


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Careful JesterOC, once you go Savage, there's no turning back. I hope your campaign is providing as much fun as ours is.

Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GreenTongue
Heroic


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 1001
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find "What every new Savage GM should know?" helpful as well.
http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17493
=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
UmbraLux
Veteran


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 773

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks UmbraLux Reply with quote

JesterOC wrote:
Thanks UmbraLux,

I got the pdf. It really helped.

JesterOC
Good to hear!

Wiggy wrote:
Writing more Whispers? Unlikely, I'm afraid. I no longer work for PEG.
Well I'll look forward to what Triple Ace has in store!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Lance
Heroic


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 1420
Location: Vicenza, Italy

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UmbraLux wrote:
Wiggy wrote:
Anyone got a copy of the Whispers article about Tricks they could send the original poster? That explained a lot of this and included extra examples.
I've got a copy.

Please, can you give me the unfindable pdf? My email address is lordlance AT email.it

Thx in advance. It would be nice!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try here
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NulSyn
Novice


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuesday wrote:
Try here


On a slightly askewed note. Are the other Whispers articles anywhere?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuesday
Heroic


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could upload the rest of them to my own space.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NulSyn
Novice


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuesday wrote:
I could upload the rest of them to my own space.
If it's not too much trouble I would love the chance to download them.
Thankee Kindly!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group Forum Index -> SW General Chat & Game Stories All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum