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Hardboiled - London
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bigsteveuk
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Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Hardboiled - London Reply with quote

Hi,

I have just started reading the book Nightside, by Simon R Green and it just seem's like a brillant twist to Hardboiled.

Blurb...
Itís always night in the Nightside. Itís always three oíclock in the morning, and the dawn never comes. People are always coming and going, drawn by needs that dare not speak their names, searching for pleasures and services unforgivable in the sane, daylight world. You can buy or sell anything in the Nightside, and no one asks questions. No one cares.

If nothing else it could give you some good ideas and is written in a suitable Noir style.

BigSteveUK
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jpk
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I think you're right. The Nightside books probably could really make for good gaming and do seem to be along the lines of what Hardboiled sounds like it'll be.

I just got tired of being hit over the head with "here on the Nightside," "you know it's the Nightside," and "did I say Nightside within the last thirty words?" I had to stop.
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jeff
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the folks just tuning in, it's the Nightside. Just in case you missed it, it's the Nightside.
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Arbor_Productions
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Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Autumn Arbor, Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since right now Mike Dukes is handling most production on Hardboiled with one team, while I handle Dawn of Legends with a different team (with his help on certain SW/new powers rules sections), I sent this thread to him to visit after college today.
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bloodshadows
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Nightside...

I've never heard of that one but you've peaked my interest. I'm still at school right now but I'll be stopping by the local bookstore as soon as I'm done here to buy it and give it a read.

One can never have too much Hardboiled goodness. Very Happy
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bloodshadows
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I went to the Books-A-Million here in town. All of their books are alphabetized by author and I had no idea who the author was. Sadly, the guy at the computer there failed his Investigation roll when I asked him to look up The Nightside. So, I am bookless.

For those that have read the series, who is the author?
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Charles Phipps
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe its Simon R. Green
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Arbor_Productions
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon R. Green, the author of the Deathstalker series we discussed recently on Yahoo, Mike.

I just hope he's learned to write. In the entire Deathstalker series, he blatantly just cut-and-pastes character reactions, and entire descriptive passages, from earlier parts of the book . . . over and over again.

Likewise for his Hawk and Moon series (I believe it is called). Books 2 and 3 repeat the same, exact descriptions from Book 1.

Personally, I fail to see why he is best-selling. I suppose the same reason M&M fans love Freedom City so much? #1eek13
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bigsteveuk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am only reading the first book thus far, so I haven't noticed any repetition.

I just loved the setting and some of the locations, as soon as I started reading it Hardboiled came to mind.

I certainly think the first book is worth a look, well so far anyway!!
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Sitting Duck
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigsteveuk wrote:
I am only reading the first book thus far, so I haven't noticed any repetition.


The second book absolutely oozes repetition. Good luck trying to plow through it. It's not too late to stop and switch to Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series.
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Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dresden IS so worth it. I have been reading them since they were released back when. Didn't like the tv series - why ruin perfectly good characters and ideas?



Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
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Charles Phipps
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Abaddon of Wormwood wrote:
Dresden IS so worth it. I have been reading them since they were released back when. Didn't like the tv series - why ruin perfectly good characters and ideas?


I never understood this attitude. Of course, neither did Jim Butcher who was a huge fan of the series and often commented that he was mystified by fan complaints on his forums.
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Savage Yinn
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Joined: 04 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a totally different media - you can try to keep it the same when the media changes, but it doesn't work in the same way.

From personal experience, if you try and turn a TV or Film into a stage play you have to change things so they are not exactly the same. In TV you can have a close up shot of an actor, this just doesn't work on stage.

Books will always* be better then the Film or TV because you can put more into a book than a hour or two and a half hour film...




*except for LotR, where the story was enhanced by the Film IMHO
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Charles Phipps
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savage Yinn wrote:
*except for LotR, where the story was enhanced by the Film IMHO


There's a few more exceptions. On a rare few occasions, a movie tightens up a story and makes it more accessible.

Another example is Bladerunner.
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Savage Yinn
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Joined: 04 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles Phipps wrote:
Savage Yinn wrote:
*except for LotR, where the story was enhanced by the Film IMHO


There's a few more exceptions. On a rare few occasions, a movie tightens up a story and makes it more accessible.

Another example is Bladerunner.


I can agree with you on that one, yes the original Philip K Dick story isn't as good as the Film.
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Tuesday
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

League Of Extraordinary Gentleman was a crappy movie, but it was better than the book. From Hell was a *much* better movie than the book, as was V For Vendetta.

Those are graphic novels, not regular novels - do they count?

(It gives me hope for Watchmen, really)

For actual full books where the movie was better:
The Shawshank Redemption
The Hunt For Red October
Harry Potter (the movies were kid-movie bad, but the books were unreadably bad)
The Count Of Monte Cristo
(In fact, insert EVERY Alexandre Dumas story here. The movies are mixed, but the books tend to be painful. It's a factor of the time period and the translation.)
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bloodshadows
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Film Noir, like Hardboiled, the novels and short stories are great for the language and atmosphere they put forth. In films, it's great to see the harsh lighting and styles plus hear the sounds and music.

It's like that for most book to movie conversions. Well, it's long been said that novels translate poorly to film because the little details are often left out plus you're generally crammed into a 120 minute time frame. But, there are always exceptions.

I think the biggest problem is Hollywood big wigs who feel that audiences lack the ability to "understand" the complexities of some novels so they change things to dumb the film versions down. I've never understood that way of thinking and it annoys me to no end.

I remember they wanted to make "The Crow" a musical before they finally decided to more-or-less go with the basics of the graphic novel as a movie. A musical... idiots.
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jpk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please tell me you're joking. The Crow: The Musical? Seriously?

Excuse me. I must now go wash my mind out with soap and water.
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bloodshadows
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpk wrote:
Please tell me you're joking. The Crow: The Musical? Seriously?

Excuse me. I must now go wash my mind out with soap and water.


I think it's on the extras of the DVD. James O'Barr is talking about how when the movie was in the planning stages with the sutdio, they seriously brought up the idea of doing it as a musical and he freaked out, asking them if they had even read the comic.

That's just one example. I've heard of numerous cases where movies were dumbed down for the audience because the execs didn't think we could handle it.

Ugh.
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Arbor_Productions
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bloodshadows wrote:
think the biggest problem is Hollywood big wigs who feel that audiences lack the ability to "understand" the complexities of some novels so they change things to dumb the film versions down. I've never understood that way of thinking and it annoys me to no end.


Unfortunately, this is entirely the case, and I speak from my personal experience in the Hollywood game.

The typical studio believes, sadly often times accurately, that the Joe Q Public of the movie theater will not be able to handle but the most basic plot with the most visual eye-candy.

Just look at the success and failure of films. Charles mentioned Bladerunner. Great film, and those of us with even some gray-matter appreciate it. However, it was not a box-office success.

Look at Bram Stoker's Dracula. Not a fantastic film, but better paced and more driven than the average vampire film (let's assume the Lost Boys type). And I well remember half the threater here in Baltimore walking out mid-way through it, some verbally complaining they don't understand it.

Sadly, in movies, catering to the lowest common denomiator equals success. Even in 1977 . . . Star Wars was not a success because of its deep story or intelligence, but for its visceral escapism and eye-candy.

Compare that with 2001 Space Odysey. A celebrated sci-fi film, and proclaimed as intelligent. Didn't do well in theaters.

Then look at Alien and Aliens (Alien3 and Alien Resurrection were just pushing too far, even for the Joe Q. Public). Nothing intelligent or meaningful in them. Just action, suspense, and eye-candy.

Success!

There is an old adage on film making between American and British films.

British Film: First 10 seconds, a plane is seen flying across the sky. Second 10 seconds, the camera begins to tighten. Next 10 seconds, the camera is tight, as we see a man sitting at the window seat, thinking. Next 10 seconds . . . the camera remains focused, and his brow furrows.

We are now up to 40 seconds.

American Film: The damned plane better blow-up or someone suffer a crisis in the first 20-30 seconds, or you lost your average audience.
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