Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[manifold]

I hope you're not getting a hand-slap vibe from me, flynn. I'm just putting in my two cents after I skim a thread or two, not trying to shoot down anyone else's ideas. Most of the stuff I'm posting is hypothetical, not really directed at anyone.

I'm glad the thread is here; attempting to define a plot point is worthwhile because it's something that's great when it works.

[Flynn]

[manifold]

In another thread (maybe in another forum), there's a link to an issue of Shark Bytes that has an interview with Shane Hensely. He talks about plot points, what they are and aren't, and how they work. He addresses the necessity of some linear structure in a plot point, and also how a plot point for each setting may look a bit different.

Here are some ideas for plot points: SPOILER WARNING!!
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1. Characters gather dispersed artifacts and save the world. (This is essentially the 50 Fathoms plot point.)

2. Characters stop a ritual that threatens the fabric of reality. (this is a summary of Night of Dissolution, but the players don't find this out until over half way through the plot point.)

3. Characters all get killed in gruesome, supernatural ways. (this is a plot point for a con haunted house game based on the film Dead Birds.)

4. Characters travel around the world to track down a lost expedition, and then stop the cult who destroyed it. (this is my guess at the plot point of Masks of Nyarlatahotep, whith which I have passing familiartiy but have not read.)

5. Characters travel the world and go to Hell and back persuing villians and collecting artifacts, leading to a final confrontation with a powerful vampire. (This is my approximation of Rippers; it's been a while.)

JD Sparks' Summary of RPG adventure plots might be instructive here. He lists several types of adventures, and then goes on to note how many of them start as one type of plot and end up as another. Masks may be structured in that way: starts out as a mystery, ends up as a "stop the ritual and save the world" adventure. So, in creating a plot point, it might be helpful to give your one-sentance summary, and then look over the Sparks list to see if any of those structures, or combinations of structures, fits the bill.

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/plots.htm

If the 50 F plot point was done in flow chart form, I believe it would have five branches off the initial incident: 4 artifact quests and 1 conditional which would say "are the characters Seasoned?". They aught to be by the time they complete the first 4 quests, but you need to spring this next episode on them when they have a chance of success. This brings up the idea of conditional episodes, and whether they are appropriate. I have to say, as much as we all say we love a good TPK, or that the game has no tension without the threat of one, they really aren't much fun. The characters can still get themselves good and killed, but they are going to have a better time if they are able to kick a little butt. Some seemingly random events can happen just because the plot says so. If boats can move at the speed of plot, so, too, can events "conincide " when it would advance the plot. (keeping in mind that advancing the plot is a transaction between the GM and the PC's: I offer you a hook. You either take it or decide to burn down the town or shoot the hostage or eat all the cookies or whatever inappropriate and derailing thing you can think of. Either way, the plot is advanced, though perhaps not in the direction I would have prefered.) Also, a level-appropriate episode isn't acutally an in-game conincidence; it's a meta-game trigger that goes off when a meta-game condition is met. Characters don't know they're Seasoned; they just know that some barmy git decided to offer to sell them a map.

babble, babble, babble.

[Flynn]

Michael Taylor was asking about this thread over on the Savage Worlds mailing list, so I figured I'd bump it. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one interested in these tidbits of wisdom that have been shared by the more experienced and knowledgable Savages on these forums.

With Regards,
Flynn
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Jason "Flynn" Kemp
Samardan Press
http://www.lulu.com/samardanpress
Stellar Reaches, a free fanzine for Classic Traveller and Traveller T20
http://stellarreaches.nwgamers.org/

[BluSponge]

This thread couldn't have better timing! Tomorrow night, I'm getting together with my fellow library GMs to bang out a plot point campaign for our Warlords of Aros game. Each of us have conjured up a few ideas and we'll be trying to work them all together in some sort of flow chart-y way.

One of the things we've been puzzling over are "tracts." Basically, the campaign has a beginning and an end, but there are three approaches the players might use to get from one to the other. By mapping these tracts, we can link the various adventures and give ourselves a framework to meet our goals while also giving the kids some freedom to wander off the rails. 50 Fathoms gave us almost too much freedom (lots of plot points started, none finished), and so we think the whole needs more structure for our purposes. It won't surprise me if the Aros ppc looks a lot like the one in Solomon Kane.

Hey, without being too spoilery, can someone break down the ppc in Necropolis a bit?

Thanks,
Tom
_________________
Lewisville Public Library Roleplaying
You control the character. You make the story. You are the legend.
The only limit is your imagination.

[Emryys]

Excellent thread, btw...

I find this point could be interesting and useful...

[Wiggy]

[pineappleleader]

[Wiggy]

[Zombi Bobb]

I think I'm getting the basic gist of all of this, but how do you maintain strict control over your plot line, while feeling loose and free without becoming a choose-your-own-adventure?

Is this the art of the plot point that cannot truly be explained?

Or am I missing a step somewhere and am now on a completely different train of thought?

[Stampede]

I started running a very very highly revamped NE game that made it much more like a comic book.

Replacing the Vasori with the worlds well meaning Superhero team that was the equivlent of the JLA/Avengers, taking it upon themselves to take over the world after a minor nuclear exchange between the U.S. and China, and the Death of "Champion" the worlds Superman.

It became a plot point as the caimpaign grew in magnitude since it was more ambitious then standard NE fight the Aliens plot..

I had to end up making alot of new locations, such as a Dark city full of cazies and a CastleRock Asylum.

A "Savage World" where a race of Liazrd Men fought tribalistic Humans.

An Ancient Egypt that had superimposed itself over Modern Egypt thanks to the Worlds "Sorcress Supreme" Isis.

A Helicarrier where the U.N sanctioned group "S.P.A.R.T.A." kept information on all known superhumans..

and Re-education camps ran by The powered Suit genius "The Platnium Protector".

Each new session involved more locations, and more ideas.. the setting grew... but I didn't really start writing it as a plot point until AFTER the game was over.. as the setting was created as we went. I more had ideas of what the players could do in the world to take down the various Superheroes and went from there.
_________________
David Viars
Line Developer for Interface Zero
Gun Metal Games

[Wiggy]

[fanchergw]

[Stampede]

That was the idea, to post it as a free supplement when we were done with it.

One of my players has even done some art of some of the characters and npcs.

Granted, It'll probably be abit still, as I'll need to wait until this semester of college is over to have more of the free time to completing it.

It was a blast to run, and in the end taught us a few more things about Savage worlds, for 1 thing, even Savage Worlds goes abit slower when you start having knock down drag out fights with multiple super powered Wild Cards on all sides.

Still tends to go alot faster then any other superhero system out there however.

We also revamped some of the powers, added new modifiers, and new powers in general to expand it as more of a full fledged superhero system itself.
_________________
David Viars
Line Developer for Interface Zero
Gun Metal Games

[Emiricol]

What would be great, but probably impossible, would be a sort of checklist for PP design. I get the idea behind it, particularly with the flow chart idea (One of the original D&D 3E modules was flow-chart based, come to think of it), but I can also see how it would be easy for a GM to get lost in all the many threads and details.

Also, bumpin' for reaper ward as I like this thread.

[farik]

I'm trying to plan my next campaign as a plot point. I'll admit the hardest part from my point of view is coming up with a compelling adventure hook.

[Emryys]

[GreenTongue]

I think you can use the Adventure Funnel process to generate the Plot Points.
http://xbowvsbuddha.blogspot.com/2006/10/adventure-funnel.html
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[Gray Mauser]

One question I have to you all is how open do you make these plot points to the players?

I'm coming from a personal Game Mastering enlightenment kick over the past 6-8 months that has really pushed my gaming envelope to new areas and one thing that I think is real important with games is in making sure everyone at the table understands the "point" of the game.

So, speaking about these Plot Points, do you make sure the players understand the points too? Or is this for the GM's eyes only? Or a middle ground? I could understand, taking Wiggy's example of the generic fantasy PP above, that the players would not know that killing or not killing the high priestess would lead to the two specific outcomes. But would do you still share the end plot point with them? To give them something "to shoot for"?
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Maus in the House

[Wiggy]