Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

starwars1138

Hey all - long time no speak...!

I saw this http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24224.html and it got me wondering how far back Savage Worlds might be. My gut says that its probably ranked a few back from 5th place but given the massive sales of a leaders, is our favorite Fast! Furious! Fun! system worth ranking?

Just curious - hope you all are well. I missed seeing everyone (you too Andy) at CotC this year - maybe next year.
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Chris in Atlanta
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"Were I not wed, I would take you in a manly fashion."
"Because I'm pretty?"
"Because you're pretty."

Clint · Site Admin Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 16176

starwars1138 · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:24 am Post subject:

fair enough Clint - I guess that since I don't see the business side of the industry, I was just curious as to how PEG stacked up in terms of "success" (a subjective term I admit) as compared to the rest of the players.

I know that PEG is healthy at a time when lots of other companies have bitten the dust which says a lot. What about scale then? How many copies of the core rules (all variations) does SW sell compared to some of the big players. WoTC is obviously the king, and if they sell 25,000 copies a year, how far back are the players at the lower levels?

Not trying to be nosey - I always think of SW as major player but I know that I my perspective is off since I don't pay attention to other vendors much. Given that we have such close access to the "movers and shakers" in the SW development process, I consider the SW community to be very unique. I can't imagine being able to game with D&D creators on a regular basis - but I might be totally wrong on that only because my time is spent only in the SW community. I think of WoTC as being a huge lumbering corporation while I picture to be a small efficient family run business and as such, I wonder how big the divide is.

Anyway - just wondering aloud. I've always found the business side of the industry interesting.
_________________
Chris in Atlanta
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"Were I not wed, I would take you in a manly fashion."
"Because I'm pretty?"
"Because you're pretty."

Jux · Seasoned Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Posts: 168

These products are popular (pathfinder and dnd) and have been "best sellers" for several years. It is hard to compete in sales with them, but currently I it seems to me, that Savage Worlds is second popular system compared to Pathfinder (d20). Specially with the new, beautiful deluxe rules book.

So I think the future is bright for SW. It is so at my gaming table Cool

Dracones · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:42 am Post subject:

Another issue here is that Savage Worlds doesn't really push out a bunch of core rule books and instead focuses on settings put out by a lot of publishers.

So for Pinnacle that means they don't see "sales" numbers from players who buy Triple Ace product lines. However it still helps them in that those other publishers keep players in the Savage Worlds system who will then be likely to buy something like Deadlands Noir.

SW is obviously less popular than D&D or Pathfinder, but it still has a respectable mind share and I think that'll only improve as publishers put out quality products for it.

Mike Zebrowski · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject:

For a point of reference, look at Amazon's sales rankings

Dungeons & Dragons (Red box): 2,227
Pathfinder: 2,900
Call of Cthulhu: 23,689
Deathwatch: 34,983
Savage Worlds Deluxe Explorer Edition: 38,019
Savage Worlds: Explorer Edition: 128,472
Savage Worlds Deluxe: 211,069
Dark Heresy: 235,657

I would trust amazon's sales rankings over ICv2's any day of the week.

Cryonic · Veteran Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Posts: 814

Clint · Site Admin Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 16176

Honestly, not really something I can definitively or even not-so-definitively answer.

I can say as it has been for some time, the top 2 are pretty much in a class all their own. Then you get into the next class range, we're pretty solidly in there with the rest. Still, it's hard to call when sales numbers tend to be the foundation of success, but we can sell copies of our core rulebook and not match the sales figures of a game that sells 1/3 or less that number of their own. Plus, most figures don't account for international versions of the rules or PDF sales (we do pretty good there).

I mean we're pretty much in a unique production paradigm that doesn't match up to the rest of the industry. We don't produce one-shot products, but our "line" is unique too.

Our core rules are very inexpensive, some first prints and at least reprints of the supplemental books are less expensive than comparable products, and settings are typically released complete as one or two books and even the exceptions aren't dozens of splatbooks.

That's just not a "normal" production scheme compared to most other RPG lines. I mean, 6 players and a GM can have all the material they need to run two complete pre-made campaigns of 50 Fathoms for less than what it would cost most GMs to get the basic rules for more popular games, much less a setting and campaign and books for the players.

Ultimately, I guess I'm saying we don't typically base our success on sales numbers, or we'd likely be handling sales in a different way.

We tend to base success on fans, and in that court, I think we're the most successful game on the market! #trippin

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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com

Jux · Seasoned Joined: 17 Oct 2012 Posts: 168

That's the only way forward!

sablemage · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject:

Clint, for what it's worth, I say you're doin' it right. Very Happy

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Andy
Halfway Station

amerigoV · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject:

I cannot speak to sales, but Savage Worlds is #1 to me. #2 is so far down the list I really could not name it.
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I call Shinanigans!

starwars1138 · Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject:

Thanks Clint - that was I think what a I was going for... where does SW rank in terms of presence?

And like you said, the big two are in their own league but SW is strong in the second group. Which is about what I expected.

Thanks!
_________________
Chris in Atlanta
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"Were I not wed, I would take you in a manly fashion."
"Because I'm pretty?"
"Because you're pretty."

Sherman · Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:10 am Post subject:

I sold about 75% in Explorer's Edition as to what I sold in 4th Ed Player's Handbooks, up until D&D died and Explorer's went away (happened at a similar time so it's a good retrospective). Sadly, more and more I have no clue what people want for role-playing since hardly anyone buys it anymore. Paizo has been pretty successful in screwing brick and mortar retailers and we really didn't need their help in getting pushed out of the RPG market...

The saddest part for me, is that I started my store mainly because of how much I love role-playing, but if I count dice, (RPG) minis and paints it's still less than 3% of my business.
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The GIT! · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:48 am Post subject:

Cryonic · Veteran Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Posts: 814

Virgobrown72 · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject:

Savage Worlds is #1 in my heart... Embarassed

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kronovan · Veteran Joined: 01 Mar 2011 Posts: 681

tigerguy786 · Seasoned Joined: 26 Nov 2011 Posts: 434

kronovan · Veteran Joined: 01 Mar 2011 Posts: 681

dap6000 · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject:

i'll play anything, but i only run savage worlds games.

as for "success" i personally have no worries about PEG or the larger savage worlds ecosystem disappearing in the foreseeable future. and that's good enough for me.