Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group

[Yuritau]

In my latest modern setting game (mid 90's), the players decided they wanted to use pepper spray as their non-lethal solution, and after looking at a few post about it here and not liking what I saw (not heavy enough for my setting), I came up with this alternative, let me know what ya think.

both sizes: 1 on shooting die (regardless of wild die) and user is affected, wild die CAN still score a success, making it possible to both succeed AND fail. A raise allows the user to hit an additional target that is both within range and within 2" of first target (small sizes), or to double the width of the cone (animal size). Doing so costs an additional "use".

purse/pocket/keychain-sized

range: 1/1/2 (essentially, if adjacent its a normal shooting roll, with 1" separation, it's a called shot to hit the face)
uses: keychain size has 2 effective uses, purse and pocket size have 4 (rough guideline, 1 use = 1 second burst)
effect: target gains a -2 penalty on all rolls and makes an immediate vigor roll at -4 (the -2 already factored in) or is shaken. At the start of each subsequent turn, target makes vigor roll or begins turn shaken (can still spirit roll or benny to unshaken), lasts until 1 minute is spent flushing eyes with copious amounts of water. Accumulating 4 raises on the vigor rolls allows target to ignore effects of this application of pepper spray, as well as the blanket -2 penalty for subsequent applications (this benefit goes away after a day). This size of spray not generally effective on large animals (well, it sort of is, but you're still gonna have a bad day if you get that close).

animal sized canister

range: 6" cone, 3" wide at the end (but effect slightly less concentrated after 4", at 4-6" affects humans roughly the same as the smaller sizes)
uses: 5 1-second bursts
effect:
-on large animals, same effect as the smaller sizes have on humans, though animals don't need water for the one minute cleaning time.
-humans hit at less than 4" range also gain a fatigue level from inhalation of the spray if they fail their initial vigor roll. Two fatigue levels on a snake eyes (or a 1 for extras). This effect cannot incapacitate.

Anything with the Hardy trait ignores the -2 penalty and only needs 2 vigor raises to ignore the effects.

[Zadmar]

That's a lot of rolls and special rules, wouldn't it be easier just to say that pepper spray inflicts nonlethal damage? If that's not nasty enough, you could treat it as poison as well.

[Starhawk]

Wow, all those special cases and cones and sizes and penalties made my eyes bleed.

You've gotta keep it Fast, Furious, and Fun -- and that means keeping it simple! You also don't want something that's easily bought off a department store shelf to be a game-breaker in terms of balance.

A burst of pepper spray should do nonlethal damage that bypasses armor, with the added effect that anyone Shaken by the pepper spray is also blinded until they become unShaken.

I agree with the poster above, that the really hardcore military-grade spray could be given Fatigue damage or use the already existing poison rules.

Realistic? Maybe not. Fast, furious, fun? Yes.

[Virgobrown72]

Non-Lethal (Fatigue) damage, small burst template immediatly in front of user character? Might be a little big, so maybe just in the immediate ajacent space...
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[Zadmar]

[Virgobrown72]

Maybe 1d6 non lethal damage, bypassing regular armor?
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"Anything smaller is just fiddly, and fiddly is not one of SvgW's three Fs..."

[Mike Zebrowski]

Pepper Spray: +2 on Agility-based Trick. Must be within 2". 2 uses.

[OSIAdept]

i would do it in the following way

range 1/2/4
Damage: None See notes
Rof: 1
Notes: On a successful attack the target must make a vigor roll, -2 to the roll on a raise. If successful the target takes a level of fatigue on a raise the target suffers no ill effects.
IF the target fails he gains the blind hindrance for d6 rounds, if a snake eyes is rolled the target is considered blind for the rest of the scene
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[tigerguy786]

[SeeleyOne]

Maybe the reason for the chance to hit the user was by pointing it the wrong way?

If it was meant to simulate the target turning it to hit the user instead, that is more of a grapple-type situation (and can be used for guns, too).
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Sorry for type-os. I am freaking blind in one eye and completely blind in the other.

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[Jordan Peacock]

One wish I have for any new weapon/attack types that deal Fatigue as an effect: Please specify HOW one recovers from the Fatigue.

There is no uniform method for recovering Fatigue that I know of; typically something is said along the lines of "Fatigue can be recovered only after 8 hours' sleep" or "after resting and warming up for 30 minutes by a fire," or "spending 15 minutes catching your breath," or whatever it is, depending on the specifications in the adventure or the rule. Fatigue that takes a few minutes to recover from is very different from Fatigue that stays with you indefinitely until some condition is met (such as the "Days at Sea" factor in Pirates RPG).
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[Prest0]

Here's the pepper spray I wrote for Degrees of Horror:

range 1/2/-
Damage: 2d6 Nonlethal
Rof: 1

These aerosol spray cans deliver a disabling dose of eye irritant commonly used for self-defense or by police to subdue a subject. Using the spray is a Shooting roll requiring a Called Shot to the head (-4). Pepper spray deals Nonlethal Damage. Targets who are Shaken are also temporarily blinded. If the Shooting die roll is a 1 (regardless of the Wild Die), you overspray and roll damage on squares adjacent to the target. On snake-eyes the mist gets in your own eyes!
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[Yuritau]

My problem with all the "keep it FFF" options in other threads, and what y'all have suggested here, is that they don't mirror/mimic the actual effects of pepper spray AT ALL. Pepper spray does NOT have a short and simple effect. Nor does it blind you, though it triggers a reflex to close your eyes and/or blink a lot, as your eyes are trying to clear out an irritant. It also doesn't make any sense to me to have it deal damage dice of any kind, it is used because it's debilitating (ie: makes it difficult to do anything), without doing any lasting damage. You use it to take people out of combat, completely. Sure, a person can try to power through it, but for most people, that would be very difficult.

I also don't see how it would be a game breaker. My players want to use it the way it was intended: to stop or avoid combat altogether. Besides, they understand that anything the GM lets them have, can just as easily be used by the bad guys, so they already have incentive not to over-use/abuse it.

[VonDan]

I found a dented one pound can of Jalappino peppers at the dollar store last night, it was hidden in the back of the shelf and the same price as the 1/4 pound cans.

to pretend to be on topic what are the stats of home made or jury rigged pepper spray, like this can of left over pepper juice I might drink and what if it was put in a squirt gun

Von "For some reason my stomache don't feel good today" Dan
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[tigerguy786]

The point of keeping things FFF is absolutely not to mimic realism. Savage Worlds is NOT the game of realism, it's a game for playing John McClane, Indiana Jones or Han Solo not to reenact Band of Brothers.

Thus the rules should involve something very simple and straightforward.

That said, if you want something that incapacitates immediately:

The target hit makes a vigor roll at -2 (-4 is a bit extreme with the way the system works, but if you want it to be that nasty, you could do that) on a failure they are incapacitated for 2d6 hours or else until the spray can be flushed from their eyes, on a success they are at -2 to all actions for 2d6 minutes.

Is that a better compromise?
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[Clint]

[Yuritau]

[Zadmar]

[Clint]

[Yuritau]