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Rapid fire with bows and throwing weapons

 
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Archmage
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Rapid fire with bows and throwing weapons Reply with quote

Hi there,

I found the new rapid fire rules in the SW:DL a nice option. But what about our fantasy bow/thrown weapons wielders ?
I thought that making Quick draw a prerequisite for using bows and thrown weapons with rapid fire (allowing only 3 instead of the 6 attacks allowed for handguns) a viable option. Any thoughts ?
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Zadmar
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Location: Munich

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellfrost has Double Shot and Improved Double Shot edges, which work like Frenzy and Improved Frenzy except they apply to bows (at short range only).

Throwing weapons are typically one-handed, which means they work with Two-Fisted and Ambidextrous. In my games I allow Frenzy to work with throwing weapons as well, although that's a house rule.

Aside from that, I don't think it would break anything if you allowed Rapid Attack to work with bows and throwing weapons. I'd suggest handling it as 3 attacks (like melee) rather than 6 though. As the Parry penalty isn't much of a drawback for ranged combat, and attacks are made against a fixed TN, you may also want to introduce some other limitation (such as applying the Snapfire Penalty when using Rapid Attack for bows and throwing weapons).

Requiring Quick Draw for throwing weapons is also a good idea, although you may want to make exceptions for special cases (a handful of shuriken, a brace of throwing knives, etc).
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zadmar wrote:
As the Parry penalty isn't much of a drawback for ranged combat, and attacks are made against a fixed TN, you may also want to introduce some other limitation (such as applying the Snapfire Penalty when using Rapid Attack for bows and throwing weapons).

Beyond the -4 Shooting, the fact that you're an Unarmed Defender, and that you lowered your parry by 2? Because my Assassin thinks that those are wonderful limitations on your archer of doom.
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Beyond the -4 Shooting, the fact that you're an Unarmed Defender, and that you lowered your parry by 2? Because my Assassin thinks that those are wonderful limitations on your archer of doom.

If the archer is stupid enough to stand within melee distance then he deserves everything he gets.

The objective of a ranged fighter is to avoid melee, therefore the -2 Parry penalty only impacts him if he screws up. On the other hand, the melee fighter is designed to close with their enemies, and will therefore be impacted by the -2 Parry penalty unless they screw up.
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Clint
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zadmar wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Beyond the -4 Shooting, the fact that you're an Unarmed Defender, and that you lowered your parry by 2? Because my Assassin thinks that those are wonderful limitations on your archer of doom.

If the archer is stupid enough to stand within melee distance then he deserves everything he gets.

The objective of a ranged fighter is to avoid melee, therefore the -2 Parry penalty only impacts him if he screws up.


Then he's trading the -2 Parry for at best an additional -2 Shooting (-6 total) for being at Medium Range or for Running to move into and out of Short Range on his action. Part of the point of Short Range on certain weapons (like bows) is that it puts the character potentially within melee range as a trade off to avoid the penalty. And if he doesn't avoid the penalty, then his "fixed TN" is effectively a 6, as if every target had a Fighting of d8 for free.

So the Parry penalty is a drawback if within Short Range obviously, but also if it forces the archer to accept a -2 attack penalty in order to avoid the detriment of being in Short Range at -2 Parry.
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Zadmar
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Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
Zadmar wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Beyond the -4 Shooting, the fact that you're an Unarmed Defender, and that you lowered your parry by 2? Because my Assassin thinks that those are wonderful limitations on your archer of doom.

If the archer is stupid enough to stand within melee distance then he deserves everything he gets.

The objective of a ranged fighter is to avoid melee, therefore the -2 Parry penalty only impacts him if he screws up.


Then he's trading the -2 Parry for at best an additional -2 Shooting (-6 total) for being at Medium Range or for Running to move into and out of Short Range on his action.

I'd hope that a ranged fighter would invest in Fleet-Footed, ride a fast horse, or climb a tree beforehand. If not, and they've no way of escaping, they should still be able to predict with a reasonable degree of accuracy when melee is inevitable (and draw a melee weapon beforehand).

My point is that when you use Rapid Attack with a melee weapon, you know you're going to end up right beside your opponent (unless you're lucky enough to take them out), or at least very close (eg if you're using a reach weapon). Even if you try to retreat immediately after attacking them, the enemy will still have a free attack against your reduced Parry.

But when you use Rapid Attack with a ranged weapon, you can usually see whether you're at risk of being punched or stabbed afterwards. If you're standing 14" away from me, then I can use Rapid Attack to shoot you with my longbow and then retreat 6", and (unless you've got some sort of supernatural ability) you won't be able to reach me that turn, and the Parry penalty won't be a concern.

Either way, it was just an observation about adapting Rapid Attack to bows and throwing weapons. It's not something covered by the core rules, and I wouldn't feel comfortable giving them 6 attacks like a revolver.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zadmar wrote:
I'd hope that a ranged fighter would invest in Fleet-Footed, ride a fast horse, or climb a tree beforehand.

And I hope that any Assassin good enough to take the professional edge is sneaking up on that over-confident archer and going to hit him from surprise when the overconfident SOB uses Rapid Attack and leaves himself wide open.

Just because a foe is being dealt action cards doesn't mean you can see him.


Six bow shots with a single action is totally ridiculous; I can agree with that.
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Zadmar
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
And I hope that any Assassin good enough to take the professional edge is sneaking up on that over-confident archer and going to hit him from surprise when the overconfident SOB uses Rapid Attack and leaves himself wide open.

Sure, but with the Drop, the Assassin edge, Unarmed Defender and Wild Attack, the assassin already has +8 to attack and +8 damage. I don't think he needs to wait for the archer to use Rapid Attack as well!
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