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STRENGTH AND SIZE- HELP!

 
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chadhale
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Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 302

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: STRENGTH AND SIZE- HELP! Reply with quote

SAVAGE WORLDS
I need your help. I must be doing something wrong or missing some information. I have the Savage worlds explorer edition and well...
The strength attribute description doesn't say anything about how much I can carry or throw. I had to go to a sidebar on page 43 to learn about "load limit". I thought I might learn more about what I can throw and how far by looking up grenades in the rules- but that says, "grenades work as usual" am I missing a book that tells me what the 'usual' is?
the sidebar on page 43 says, "take the strength die and multiply it by 5 to determine your character's 'load' an amount of weight that can be carried without penalty; X8 if you have the background edge, "BRAWNY". You can throw this amount with no problems? How far? I don't know. having to search for info makes me feel more and more like I am missing another book altogether.
My problems start when I get about 1d12 strength.
a d12 +1 is 13 right? so, x5 is 65 lbs and x8 is 104 lbs
d12+2 is 14? x5 is 70 and x8 is 112.
d12+3 is 15? x5 is 75 and x8 is 120.
I open up the superpowers companion and...
I am completely lost.
the blurb about carrying capacity for low powered 'street level' games says characters use the weights for one level lower on the chart (page 52) for example, a d12+1 has an 80 lbs load limit and 320 max weight. but when I turn to page 52 the chart shows:
d12+1 strength as a load limit of 100 and max of 400. oh yeah, use the one below it...
it says, d12 strength has a load limit of 60 and max of 240.
where did the 80 and 320 come from? I feel like I am missing something.
at least I know how to throw stuff now- the side bar includes one sentence; "a hero may throw an item under his load limit with a range of 3/6/12, items less than half the load limit can be thrown 6/12/24."
***********
Back to strength limits: I know that a hero can carry the load limit without penalty, and has a -1 penalty for carrying loads greater than that up to double the load limit, after that a -3 penalty for weights up to three times the load limit, and a -4 for anything greater than that only for a few steps.
uhm, what does the penalty apply to? rolls to hit, stealth, swimming, climbing, fatigue checks?
there is no strength chart in the savage worlds explorer book.
the superpowers companion strength chart on page 52 shows;
STRENGTH LOAD MAX weight.
d12 60 240
d12+1 100 400
d12+2 250 1000
d12+3 500 1 ton
Clearly this is different from the numbers I got earlier.

Can I have an accurate strength chart please? why is all this info scattered and hidden (or forgotten to be added)? If strength die determines the damage I can deal in melee, what does it mean if I have one guy who is normal with a d12+2 strength load 70, vs A FORKLIFT TRANSFORMING ROBOT with a d12+2 strength load 250? Clearly the normal guy is outclassed and should not be dealing the same damage! clearly the robot is far stronger and should be doing more- there isn't a contest here!

#gunbattle Spaceman Biff has a blaster pistol and does 2d6 damage, while an alien space fighter has heavy armor and heavy weapons. what kind of damage does biff's blaster do to the fighter? what will the fighter's matching damage dice (but heavy weapons) do to biff?

Also, I need a chart and more detailed information on SIZES. growth and shrinking powers confuse me just like strength. I feel I am missing a whole other book if not more...

lots of questions here, I know-
but I need your
HELP!
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 6322

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCORE! GIANT WALL OF TEXT!

Time to get a new battering ram. Cool

Lifting and Loads:
Core Rules - characters have a load limit of 5 x Strength die unless they have a special ability that changes that. Each multiple of the load limit is a -1 on Strength, Agility, and linked skill rolls. A character cannot lift more than 4*Load limit (and 3 times is the limit for regular carrying). You can throw stuff, but improvised weapons have a GM-determined range increment - usually one of the following 3: 1/2/4, 2/4/8, or 3/6/12.
Super Powers Companion - works differently because that setting expects super-strong characters to be throwing buildings at each other. You have to be able to lift a lot to tear up the scenery that way. This book uses a completely different lifting value for strength above d12. But, the chart is accurate for this book.

d12+1 does count as 13 when figuring the Load Limit. Good job on that part.


Heavy Armor vs. Biff's Laser:
Is Biff's laser a heavy weapon? If no then he simply gets the pilot's attention, and the pilot uses the fighter's weapons to vaporize Biff. If yes then his 2d6 damage is rolled and compared to the vehicle toughness of the fighter.
If using the SPC Blaster, Biff can expend three times the normal ammo to make each attack count as a Heavy Weapon.


Size:
Size is a semi-abstract scale. It goes from -2 (rat sized) to ... well, it doesn't really have a maximum. Size is a direct modifier of Toughness. Toughness = 2 + Size + (half Vigor) + Armor + Special. Special includes things like the Undead +2 Toughness.

Especially large or small characters have a couple of additional rules come into play. They acquire the special abilities Small, Large, Huge, or Gargantuan (all of which are described in your Core Rules book, around page 143 and 141 for Gargantuan).



Good luck, stay calm, and feel free to ask more questions.
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"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."
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chadhale
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Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 302

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there a defined set of rules for what a 'heavy weapon' will do to a target that does not have 'heavy armor'?

thank you for the help. I don't know how I missed the size chart on page 143.

the growth (SUPER)power includes increasing strength,
while the SWE size chart only shows increasing toughness.

I am working on a project in the home brew section,
it would seem appropriate that growth adds strength...

but does it?
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 6322

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chadhale wrote:
is there a defined set of rules for what a 'heavy weapon' will do to a target that does not have 'heavy armor'?

Nothing special, though it's worth noting that most Heavy Weapons have a lot of AP and good damage (making them murder on "soft" targets).
If you were to take a real M2HB (M-2 Heavy Barrel) .50 GPHMG (General Purpose Heavy Machine Gun) and shoot an old-model Armored Personnel Carrier (APC), the round would probably go through both sides. If you shoot a Civic with that gun, the round will almost certainly go through both sides (even if the engine is in the way).
Conversely, there are documented cases of individual soldiers being in the blasts of multiple anti-tank rockets over the course of a battle and surviving. So, anything is possible, and the Savage Worlds rules actually reflect that.

Quote:
the growth (SUPER)power includes increasing strength,
while the SWE size chart only shows increasing toughness.

Just one of the many, many, many difference between the SPC and the Core Rules.
When trying to understand how the Core Rules work, only look at the Core Rules, errata, and answers in the Official Answers on How the Core Rules Work forum.
The Super Powers Companion is a set of Setting Rules for comic-book-level super-power games. As such, they change a lot of rules to make Savage Worlds heroes operate on that scale. How the Growth power works is actually the same (check out growth/shrink in the powers section), within the limits of the two very different power systems. But the Growth power is not the same as Creature Size, even in the SPC (though they are darn close).

Quote:
it would seem appropriate that growth adds strength...

Growth does add Strength. Increasing Size does not add strength - and you can make NPCs any Size without using a "growth" power.
But, if you look through the critters then you'll notice that things with Size tend to have a Strength adjusted to match their size bonus. Trolls (Size +2) have Strength d12+2. Ogres (Size +3) have Strength d12+3. Orcs (Size +1) have Strength d8, one step above the Soldier stats that they closely resemble. Goblins (Size -1) have Strength d4, one step below the Soldier stats that they loosely resemble. Dragons (Size +8 ) have Strength d12+9.
Heck, the Brawny edge makes you Size +1 and increases your load limit from x5 to x8 - it's not a full increase in Strength, but it has most of the same effects.

So, for NPCs, increasing Size usually increases Strength - but not always. I distinctly remember a villain that was Size +4 with a Strength d4 - he was a half-ton of fat on a nonathletic man, but he was a powerful crime lord. Laughing
Similarly, I've seen monsters that were Size +6 but not Large. They weren't big, but they were really dense, giving them enough mass to absorb lots of force without injury.
Which is why you should build NPCs that are correct to themselves and try not to throw them at the players until their characters are ready for that kind of challenge. Mr. Green


Best of luck!
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."


Last edited by ValhallaGH on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sitting Duck
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Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 5005
Location: Podunk Junction, State of Confusion

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Quote:
it would seem appropriate that growth adds strength...

It does not add strength.


It does.
Page 40 of the SPC wrote:
Each time Growth is purchased it adds +1 to Size, which is added directly to Toughness and adds one step to the character's Strength.

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