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[HoeR] Using DLR Tale Tellin' Rules

 
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Thunderforge
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: [HoeR] Using DLR Tale Tellin' Rules Reply with quote

Perhaps my biggest complaint about Hell on Earth Reloaded is the fact that Tale Tellin' has really taken a back seat. This is what the Marshal's section says about it:
The Marshal's Section of Hell on Earth Reloaded wrote:
Once the posse defeats a major evil, one of the heroes may make a Persuasion roll to tell the tale of the group’s victory over the forces of darkness. This roll is modified by the Fear Level, and if successful, the hero’s story reduces the local Fear Level by 1. Exactly how “local” this is depends on the hero’s audience. If he spreads the story to the population of a small town, he probably lowers the Fear Level within that town only.

It then talks about broadcasting a tale to ComSat and what happens if you botch your tale. And that's it. No gamemaster suggestions about doing anything special for the posse (after all, you can't give a Legend Chip anymore), no information about why the posse would bother with it, no information about how this is vital to saving humanity, nothing.

Fixing the first few problems explaining how important it is is the easy part, but there's still the problem that mechanically the posse gets diddly squat out of telling a tale. Even someone with the Tale Teller Edge just gets a plain ol' benny, which I figure a GM would probably give anyway for even bothering to tell the tale when it's taken such a back seat in Hell on Earth Reloaded.

So I'm wondering if it would be possible to use the DLR Tale Tellin' Rules. Basically, there would be three changes:
  • The player must tell the tale to the gaming table
  • Telling a tale results in the posse receiving a Legend Chip (as described in Deadlands Reloaded)
  • Anyone with the Tale Teller Edge gets their own Legend Chip, rather than just a plain ol' benny

Since Hell on Earth Reloaded just uses plain ol' bennies, this makes a Legend Chip markedly more powerful, but otherwise I don't see an issue with it. The big problem is how to give the posse their hard earned Legend Chip, since there isn't a hat of Fate Chips. I'd like to suggest that at the start of each session, everyone rolls a d20 for each Benny they will receive. If they roll a 20, they get the Legend Chip instead.

What do you all think? Is this a good way to solve the problem of Tale Tellin' taking a back seat or is there a better solution?
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tale telling isn't in the back seat. It is were it has always been. Tale Tellin' has always been tied up in the trunk with duct tape over it's mouth.

It's a thing, you can do it, it lowers the fear level. It used to add a legend chip to the pot, which gave a few perks (Templar Greater Rewards come to mind), but that was it.
Beyond the benefit of lowering the local fear level, it never did much.


As to your specific suggestions:
1) Pretty sure that's already in there. But I may be confusing it with DL:R. Either way, it should be fine.
B) Okay. If you want it, do it. It won't break anything.
Third) That's a heck of a benefit for Tale Tellers. Expect them to be telling tales all the time and in all locations, looking to milk that edge for a Legend Chip. This does make Tale Telling a Big Deal in your HOE games.
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Thunderforge
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Third) That's a heck of a benefit for Tale Tellers. Expect them to be telling tales all the time and in all locations, looking to milk that edge for a Legend Chip. This does make Tale Telling a Big Deal in your HOE games.

That's exactly how the Tale Teller Edge worked in Deadlands Reloaded. Even so, I rarely saw it taken Confused
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Hellfire6A
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules also say that a Tale Teller makes the roll when I big bad has been taken down. Not just whenever they win any old fight. So that limits when a Tale Telling roll comes into effect. What also limits this kind of roll is that it would generally occur well after the fight is over. It is the epilogue of the adventure and most of the time the players are wanting to head home. After the big fight most people are done. That means that the Tale Teller has to wait till the next session or that the other players (GM especially) tolerate one more big go around with the dice.

How this plays out depends on the group. It depends on the GM. It depends on how complicated everyone involved is willing to allow. From the stand point of other players if the Legend chip is only going to help the Tale Teller they may (understandably) balk. This is realistically a question for the group as a whole.

There are all sorts of ways to play the Tale Teller, same as any other PC type. Use the social conflict system from SWD or the roll as outlined in HOER rules. Or something completely different.

The Legend Chip probably ought to be used in a way similar to DL:R otherwise the other players are probably going to feel a bit cheated when the Tale Teller is allowed to dominate the game while they tell the story of the victory and then gets a Legend Chip on top of it. If it is something everyone benefits from then it becomes cooperative and enjoyable for everyone and more likely that the group will wish to have a Tale Teller.

Tale Tellers to be effective have to sink some significant capital into various edges and traits. That means they (possibly) take away some combat effectiveness from the group. Which other players may resent especially if they see no return when they are having to do the heavy lifting the Tale Teller can't do.
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TommyBrownell
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellfire6A wrote:
Tale Tellers to be effective have to sink some significant capital into various edges and traits. That means they (possibly) take away some combat effectiveness from the group. Which other players may resent especially if they see no return when they are having to do the heavy lifting the Tale Teller can't do.


Really?

Charisma, Tale Teller and Persuasion d8 isn't that much to invest in a character, especially when two of those can have a bigger effect than just lowering the Fear Level. You can still be a decent shot with those investments, and that's not even getting into the ways non-combat characters can impact conflicts (Tricks, Tests of Wills).

Of course, I've also never experienced player resentment within my group(s) for someone's character being weaker or less skilled or what have you, either.
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Hellfire6A
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tale Tellers make great "face" type characters. However, The difficulty of lowering the Fear Level with just d8 Persuasion and Charisma would mean a greater investment in Attractive and Very Attractive would be very desirable if not necessary if you are wanting a better than even chance at success.

The easiest place to lower the Fear Level is in the Great Basin; a FL of 3. OK a normal human with Tale Teller and Charisma would have to roll a 3 to be successful and with a d8 that shouldn't be too hard. But let's talk about the scarier places. Meaning most places out there. Fear Levels 4, 5 and 6 would become much more challenging.

At lower ranks those two edges are significant. I agree it is doable. And the odds aren't impossible.

However, giving the Tale Teller the spoils when everyone else also worked to vanquish an enemy seems a bit one-sided. And players will become resentful if they feel they did all the fighting and dying and can't get the rewards from the Tale Telling role as well.

I just think it means that GMs are going to have to do something to make it more equitable. Whatever that means in each group. Whether that is using a method similar to Legend chips from DL:R or reputation or fame or something similar.

The players should be given some sort of glory for lowering the Fear Level it should be attended with the proper "ceremony" not just a bennie that helps just one person. It is a significant event. It will impact not just the PCs but whole communities of NPCs. It changes the supernatural landscape and places the manitou on the defensive. A roll and a bennie seems to be just a bit anti-climactic.

For that reason I think the simple method could and should be expounded on. The PC that it the Tale Teller has made a significant investment in edges and should be rewarded with a little pomp and circumstance. And he should have a commensurate level of challenge to the impact of his success. The other PCs should also get some sort of award and ceremony for their efforts. Lowering the Fear Level should be a big thing. Not just a roll and a bennie.
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wanderingmystic
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with Hellfire that awarding a Legendary benny doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I personally find it best to award the players as a whole if the tale-teller is successful in the way of some fame, in that area, (they get treated better, helped out, cheaper prices, ect). The classic tale-teller mostly just survived encounters and didn't really give much to the fight. The legend chip allowed tale-tellers to give this the the right person the ability to tip the tide of battle at t he right time, however this is rarely what happens in real games where they spend them on themselves and not for the best of the party.
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