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Thunderforge
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 Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: What Kind of West is This? |
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Deadlands is the Weird West.
Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.
Lost Colony is the Way Out West.
So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called?
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Clint
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: Re: What Kind of West is This? |
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| Thunderforge wrote: | Deadlands is the Weird West.
Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.
Lost Colony is the Way Out West.
So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called? |
It's not the West at all. That was kind of the point of the Kickstarter, to determine interest in a non-Western Deadlands setting.
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Bluegrass
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Joined: 17 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Howy,
And I'd say the "Veteran of the Weird/Wasted/Way Out" would be something like "Hardboiled" or "Veteran of the Great War/Banana Wars".
Thanks,
Bluegrass |
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doctorduckbutter
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Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 117
Location: Tampa
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: What Kind of West is This? |
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| Thunderforge wrote: | Deadlands is the Weird West.
Hell on Earth is the Wasted West.
Lost Colony is the Way Out West.
So what is Noir? I know that New Orleans isn't particularly "west", but with the companion there will be three new areas that are all in the west (plus Chicago). Any ideas for a catchy name for it? Or any Pinnacle staffers want to let us know what the "Veteran of the _____ West" is called? |
The "Not So West" West?  |
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newForumNewName
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Joined: 22 Oct 2010
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Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to say it's directionless and is just Hard-Boiled. So instead of a "Veteran o' the Weird/Wasted West" it would just be called "Hard-Boiled."
See what I did there?
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VonDan
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CitizenX
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Fun fact about New Orleans, the West Bank is east of the city. |
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Cutter XXIII
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Joined: 27 Sep 2005
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Location: I dwell in the Village of Rock, MD
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm reading Hard-Boiled: An Anthology of American Crime Stories (Eds. Bill Pronzini & Jack Adrian), because the "hard-boiled" literary genre is the precursor to film noir. I found a telling passage in the introduction:
| Quote: | Although the hard-boiled story as we know it today was born in the 1920s, hard-boiled writing did not spring fully fledged from that anti-social maelstrom of the years between the two world wars. It was a melange of different styles and different genres, and its heroic figures can be traced back a hundred years earlier, to both the myth and the reality of the western frontier. The history of the United States abounds with larger-than-life loners whose accomplishments, whose very survival, depended on an uncompromising toughness and a willingness to enter into struggles against seemingly insurmountable odds: Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett, Jim Bridger, Mike Fink, Jim Bowie. Such rugged individualists inspired the creation of mythical heroes—Paul Bunyan, for instance—and of fictional men of action. Both James Fenimore Cooper's Nattty Bumppo and Herman Melville's Ahab are hunters driven by forces outside themselves, and in that sense are perfect paradigms of the modern private eye. Even Mark Twain's Huck Finn, and certainly Jack London's Wolf Larsen, have elements of the hard-boiled knight in their makeup.
Similarly, American hisory is filled with scoundrels and outlaws; persons motivated by greed, lust, and power; persons who hold human values and human life in little regard: William Bonney, John Wesley Hardin, Belle Starr, Herman W. Mudgett, and all the little-known and long-forgotten grifters, gamblers, confidence swindlers, whores, thieves, and paid assassins who inhabited the towns and cities, followed the railroads westward, and flocked to the gold-mining camps. These figures likewise inspired nineteenth- and early-twentieth-century authors, among them Mark Twain, Bret Harte, Frank R. Stockton, Upton Sinclair, and O. Henry. They, too, are the antecedents of the individuals who live in the pages of the modern noir story. |
The intro then goes on to talk about dime novels, and how they held not only stories of the frontier but also New York City's mean streets, and how those stories became "hard-boiled fiction" in the pulps that came later (and put the dime novels out of style and out of business).
Anyway, it struck me as neat to think of the Noir genre as the direct descendant of Western tales. What links the Noir story most solidly with the Western tale is that both of them are quintessentially American art forms/genres.
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Gardensnake
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
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ValhallaGH
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Gardensnake wrote: | Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.
Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition.  |
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DrErikSpangler
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | Gardensnake wrote: | Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.
Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. |
And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key...  |
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ValhallaGH
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| DrErikSpangler wrote: | | ValhallaGH wrote: | | Gardensnake wrote: | Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.
Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. |
And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... |
One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." |
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newForumNewName
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Joined: 22 Oct 2010
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Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | DrErikSpangler wrote: | | ValhallaGH wrote: | | Gardensnake wrote: | Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.
Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. |
And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... |
One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." |
Basic plot: hero wants something, villain stands in the way of hero, hero overcomes villain, hero wins. Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain.
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Connallmac
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Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 131
Location: Eastern IN
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| newForumNewName wrote: | | Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain. |
From the Yakov Smirnoff school of criticism, "In Soviet Russia, protaganist is villain!". |
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newForumNewName
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Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Connallmac wrote: | | newForumNewName wrote: | | Works for tragedy too: protagonist is villain. |
From the Yakov Smirnoff school of criticism, "In Soviet Russia, protaganist is villain!". |
Russian literature is the best example of this, actually. Anna Kerenina, off the top of my head.
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vag
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Location: Trier, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Being from Europe, New Orleans is "West" enough for me, so:
The "Hard-Boiled West" works for me...
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Sitting Duck
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Location: Podunk Junction, State of Confusion
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | DrErikSpangler wrote: | | ValhallaGH wrote: | | Gardensnake wrote: | Consider Bruce Willis' " Last Man Standing", a bit Noir-ish (is that a word?) and the same story as " A Fist Full of Dollars". The genre's are quite compatible.
William |
And both are copies of Kurosawa's film Yojimbo.
Is it any wonder that Japan loves the American Western, or hard-boiled Noir stories? They have their own, nearly identical tradition. |
And Yojimbo was in turn inspired from Dashiell Hammett's Red Harvest and The Glass Key... |
One day, some scholar will track down the source story, and then we can all say "See! These 8 million stories are all the same." |
There's probably a Shakespeare play (likely one of the lost ones) that uses the same plot. 
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Thunderforge
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| vag wrote: | | The "Hard-Boiled West" works for me... |
No alliteration sadly, but I'll take it. Deadlands Noir: The Hard-boiled West.
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farik
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Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Have you consider the Eerie East or possibly even the Spooky South? ANd of course you can always use "Nawlins Noir" |
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Ray
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Dustbowl Dreary?
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