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Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment Group
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kronovan
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 Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| jpk wrote: | | But, it does sound a little like you're over-estimating how much thought Pinnacle puts into the financial merits of including a Plot Point Campaign in a book. Our decisions on that front are more often made on page count (Can we put one in here and still make the book affordable?) and "general feel" (Is there a single PPC that could be representative enough of the genre to suggest it's the definitive one?). |
Something I really like about the Beasts & Barbarian setting book is there's only a 6 part adventure (albeit a damn good one) as a full PPC may have made the book a bit too lenghty - maybe too costly as well, but I wouldn't know about such things. Gramel instead took the approach of releasing 3 additional free adventures (ranging from 4 - 6 parts) that B&B owners can download from reatail sites like drivethrurpg. With the book adventure and all those freebies linked together it makes a nice, short PP campaign. I see the real advantage of that approach in that it gets setting fans going to the the sites where the other pay-for adventures are offered. I'm only speculating, but I'm guessing there's a decent attachment rate for their other pay-for adventures offered on those same sites. |
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Thunderforge
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee_Szczepanik wrote: | | However, your point about licensees and plot-points brings something to mind that has been said to me repeatedly in the past 3 years by some licensees (some here now, some long gone). That being: the traditional plot-point model begs for a setting to be fire-and-forget, in other words the group plays the PPC, shelves it, moves on to the next company/setting. Unless, that is, said company has hot-and-cold running ideas and can keep producing setting after setting like Pinnacle can. |
I don't think that it's necessarily true that a PPC must result in the whole setting being fire-and-forget. Deadlands for instance has two PPCs with two more in the works and it's certainly not a fire-and-forget setting. I think the reason Pinnacle tends to create settings that are based around a single PPC (e.g. Necessary Evil, 50 Fathoms) is because it showcases the wide variety of settings that Savage Worlds can accommodate while providing an exciting story with the fate of the world in the balance. It doesn't have to be this way, but it works well for Pinnacle.
To me, I want PPCs to have a big enough effect on the setting to make it so I actually feel like what the characters did mattered (especially if I sunk a whole year of campaign time into it), but it doesn't necessarily have to result in the end of the setting. The story can still go on after a PPC is concluded, but I want to make it feel like the PPC impacted the setting in some way.
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Virgobrown72
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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SteamPunk Musha is a very cool settings. I was already playing this with the Savage worlds rules a while ago!!! It definitely has a different feel than Iron Dynasty though. Please, by all means, make mine Savage!!! 
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Lee_Szczepanik
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunderforge wrote: | | Lee_Szczepanik wrote: | | However, your point about licensees and plot-points brings something to mind that has been said to me repeatedly in the past 3 years by some licensees (some here now, some long gone). That being: the traditional plot-point model begs for a setting to be fire-and-forget, in other words the group plays the PPC, shelves it, moves on to the next company/setting. Unless, that is, said company has hot-and-cold running ideas and can keep producing setting after setting like Pinnacle can. |
I don't think that it's necessarily true that a PPC must result in the whole setting being fire-and-forget. Deadlands for instance has two PPCs with two more in the works and it's certainly not a fire-and-forget setting. I think the reason Pinnacle tends to create settings that are based around a single PPC (e.g. Necessary Evil, 50 Fathoms) is because it showcases the wide variety of settings that Savage Worlds can accommodate while providing an exciting story with the fate of the world in the balance. It doesn't have to be this way, but it works well for Pinnacle.
To me, I want PPCs to have a big enough effect on the setting to make it so I actually feel like what the characters did mattered (especially if I sunk a whole year of campaign time into it), but it doesn't necessarily have to result in the end of the setting. The story can still go on after a PPC is concluded, but I want to make it feel like the PPC impacted the setting in some way. |
Well, I didn't agree with them, either. Hellspawn will show me what is what, as much as it can.
I was simply stating what some licensees have said about the PPC model, and why they will be very unlikely to ever use it.
Now, for me as far as being a die-hard Savage Worlds Gamer? The PPC model is what first attracted me to Savage Worlds. I've run enough of them (Rippers, Slipstream, Sundered Skies, Rune Punk, Necropolis 2350, Necessary Evil, and even The Flood) . . . or, I should say: Tried to run them. See, in no instance did the PPC ever survive prolonged contact with my player group. Inevitably, I had to design so much on my own, that the PPC portion of the book became a "good read" and little else.
Nowdays, as a Savage Gamer, I am really on a 50-50 split if I would plunk down money for a PPC setting. I like the model, but for my group it makes that much of the book all but useless by about Session 4.
That's probably why Hellfrost is one of my all-time favorite Savage Settings to run, followed by Deadlands. No PPC, all the book is a value to me as a gamer with this group, and plenty of individual adventures if I need them.
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Lee_Szczepanik
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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And to bring this thread back to the OP, what I would like to see as a Savage Gamer is a fully fleshed out, open setting, adventure support, and if there is going to be a PPC, make it a separate, optional thing like Deadlands: The Flood.
Other than that, more genre Companion style books, but Pinnacle pretty much has that line covered.
| FatGoblinGames wrote: | Hey everyone!
Fat Goblin Games has mainly been creating material for the Pathfinder rpg, but have had plans to do some Savage Worlds material since we launched. A couple drinks with Shane Hensley and we were convinced and even more excited to switch gears.
We have two setting planned for Savage Worlds. Our Vathak setting (Fantasy- lovecraftian/survivor horror) and Steampunk Musha (Victorian/Asian steampunk).
We are also accustomed to producing several smaller supplements a month, and are very curious what type of products you feel are missing in your Savage Worlds line-up. We see a lot of adventures and setting books being made, but beyond that, what do you want to see?
Anyways, we are excited about being a part of this community and look forward to sharing our own products with you soon. |
Consider me very interested in your two setting concepts! 
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Sitting Duck
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Lee_Szczepanik wrote: | | However, your point about licensees and plot-points brings something to mind that has been said to me repeatedly in the past 3 years by some licensees (some here now, some long gone). That being: the traditional plot-point model begs for a setting to be fire-and-forget, in other words the group plays the PPC, shelves it, moves on to the next company/setting. |
This doesn't have to be the case. The Runepunk PPC is a good example of one that doesn't effectively neutralize the major threats of the setting.
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Lee_Szczepanik
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Sitting Duck wrote: | | Lee_Szczepanik wrote: | | However, your point about licensees and plot-points brings something to mind that has been said to me repeatedly in the past 3 years by some licensees (some here now, some long gone). That being: the traditional plot-point model begs for a setting to be fire-and-forget, in other words the group plays the PPC, shelves it, moves on to the next company/setting. |
This doesn't have to be the case. The Runepunk PPC is a good example of one that doesn't effectively neutralize the major threats of the setting. |
Like I said, I wasn't agreeing with them. Just stating in response to an earlier post why some licensees just won't use the PPC model.
Daring is using the model in Hellspawn and World of the Dead (2013). However, that's because both settings/events tell a specific story. Yet neither ends the setting (though World of the Dead will be the final book I publish for that particular line). The comic book setting we created for "Hellspawn" will continue publication even after the alien event is concluded. I've always said that the Hellspawn PPC is akin to a comic book mega-event, as opposed to the setting-concluding plot points.
So, I do agree with you.
We have 2 other settings in the works that won't use the PPC at all, as there is no "definitive" story to tell in that sense. There will, however, be individual adventures and even Adventure Series (ala Hellspawn: Countdown to Invasion) for them. Nothing though, as massive as War of the Dead. That was a one-time thing for us.
The PPC Model is more than just a central story (the 10-12 part actual Plot-Point Adventures). On average, it is also 25-35 side adventures (Savage Tales). Personally, I just don't feel the model fits every setting. I'm not convinced of any "market" opinions on it.
Now, as far as a great example of a PPC, I've always felt Rippers was the most well done.
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Virgobrown72
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:22 am Post subject: |
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I personally would like to see you guys include the following:
-A Plot point campaign
-A bestiary (Relevant to the setting specificalyy)
-A Random Adventure Generator
-No Major rules changes to rules as in the SWD. ( I don't really enjoy having to relearn extra stuff just to play. I feel theSWD covers almost every thing just fine...)
With these in place, I think you'll do fine with experienced and casual Savage World gamers alike...
(I LOVE SteamPunk Musha!!! )
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David2012
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Joined: 23 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Personally, the selling point for any rpg product is a solid, thought-provoking setting.
As I like putting my own stamp on any campaign I run, I'm not really interested in PPCs or adventure generators - though I appreciate that other GMs like them, and the one presented in Beasts and Barbarians was very nicely done.
When SW debuted it was supported with Evernight, which I thought was terrible; indeed it put me off SW for quite a while.
By all means publish PPCs and good quality scenarios, but please don't stuff the initial release with them - use that space to supply more inspiring setting content that will suggest good plot ideas instead.
Oh, and I'm not a crunch-monkey either - let's face it, most Edges usually provide a plus to this, or a minus to that, so who cares? - but I'm not opposed to setting-specific ABs or Edges that enhance the flavour of the setting. Deadlands did this very well, in all its incarnations.
Finally (my personal pet hate): please, no zombies. This is a subject that has been done to death. No pun intended. |
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FatGoblinGames
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Joined: 25 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Hey folks, thanks for all the replies. We've been reading and discussing in-house and have a better idea of what we want to do, we just didn't want to jump in early and end the great feedback.
Thanks for all the comments, and the PM's about doing our setting, especially Vathak. We are excited about that and hope to have more to share soon. We will also be looking for a freelancer with strong skills and track record with Savage Worlds to assist us and make sure we can deliver the best products we can.
Again, thanks. |
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