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HoE Reloaded First Impressions!
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Kilgore
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been waiting YEARS for this book to come out, and I'm really happy with what they've done with it.

Things I like:

I think all of the reworked AB's are spot on, and it doesn't bother me at all that they've been brought into line with the standard Savage Worlds magic system. The variations in spell lists, backlash effects, and recharge rules mean that they all "feel" very different, even though they take advantage of the ease of use offered by the consolidated power effects. And the space that would have been spent stating out and describing "mirv," "brain burn," "guns," and "trash bolts" as separate spells can be better spent on other things. The junker rules are an especial standout, maintaining all of their old flexibility but getting rid of the insane bookkeeping requirements. I like to think of the Junker's "powers" as analogous to friendly browser spirits under the classic rules, while the rest of their gadgets are on par with standard junker devices.

I also really like that the Harrowed edges were beefed up, which seems appropriate for a more dangerous, less subtle time, where the supernatural is a something everyone is aware of anyway. For the same reason, I think getting rid of the guts skill makes perfect sense.

I like the new Kung Fu rules, which would work equally well for a traditional martial artist or someone who was a highly trained member of the military.

In short, hats off gentlemen!

The only thing I didn't really like was that I felt like lowering the fear level got short shrift. There was no real explanation of the greater significance of lowering the fear level, and the payoff seemed pretty limited, especially because tale-telling rolls often take place (at least in my parties) at the end of the session, with the major combat for the night already behind the posse. I might change the bennie to a "trophy" or "memento" ala the Scroungin' table. It feels more significant, and would let them the heroes save up their good karma till they really need it.

There were a few things that I wasn't sure about:

Can vehicles switch between spook juice and gasoline or diesel? The sidebar in the posse section seems to suggest that they can't, but the text around Oil Town and OPEC makes it sound like they are producing fuel for use in vehicles along with plastics and lubricant. Maybe a simple repair roll and 1d4 hours work can convert a vehicle from one to the other?

I'm also curious about slow burn. Without AP it seems under-powered, but, now that it only takes one action to cast, causing it to negate armor completely as in the old rules seems overpowered, since even the big tanks only have 15-20 base toughness. Maybe it should halve the armor of the target, like the Lee's main gun? Or count as striking the target's most lightly armored location (so a slow burn targeting a Powell would hit the tank's rear armor (70 (50)) with its 5d10 bolt, instead of the front armor)?

I'm starting to ramble, but in conclusion, thanks so much to everybody at PEG, and way to hit it out of the park.

ValhallaGH wrote:
Yondalor wrote:
Damn! I just printed my copy, and now it's full of errors.

No, it was full of errors and then you printed it. Laughing
There's a reason PEG releases the pdf and waits a bit before sending the final print master to the printers. 3,000 fans are better editors than a fleet of professionals - that many eyes will catch almost every error.
Hold off printing for another week or so and you won't have that problem again.


Is there a place where we should send errata that we've noticed, or should we just post it here on the forum?
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HalifaxDM
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Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smarttman wrote:
Yondalor wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:
Download a new copy. They fixed that by the time I got my copy. #gunbattle


Damn! I just printed my copy, and now it's full of errors. Maybe we could compile a list of all the things that were changed in the PDF?


Is there a way you can tell when they update the pdf?


Further to that, will the PDFs on both the Pinnacle Store and the Studio Store be updated?
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Big Bad Jack
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, I missed that..

..they're still staggeringly vicious n melee, though!
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shinryu
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Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know for sure if the PDF's been updated? My download from the Pinnacle store keeps dying (should have waited for DTRPG, I guess? but SO AWESOME HOE RELOADED got the best of me). If so, any changes to the weapon list? I'm convinced it's loaded with problems (a .357 doing more damage than a .44, missing NA and SA assault rifles when both and their ammo are referred to in the main text, couple other things). Oddly, my version doesn't seem to have the offending powers for Templars (that is to say, they don't have e.g. Banish (though beast friend, yes...)).
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archus
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 59
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shinryu wrote:
Does anyone know for sure if the PDF's been updated?

The pdf is updated (I just downloaded latest). The templar list no longer has stun like it did in my prior version.

I'm really liking HoE:RL. I never played or even read classic HoE (did play classic deadlands run by one of its biggest fans ever... I prefer DL:RL).

The setting has a bunch of flavor, I like the arcane backgrounds (other than my intrinsic dislike of power points) and I can really see playing/running a game there. Made me want to play Fallout again... or even better a HoE video game Wink

I'm currently running Deadlands The Flood but looking forward to running in the wasted west in the future. Once Noir comes out I'll likely be torn three ways over what to run (and that is just in the Deadlands universe... not including other great SW settings).

Looking over the ABs it seems like they have a little something extra over the standard ones in SWD or even Deadlands. Doomsayers get the recharge and mutation bonus. Junkers get the Gadgeteer edge with super speed, Skykers don't seem to get a flat bonus, Templars get their blade, and Toxic Shamans can drink spook juice. Of all the extras the Junkers and Templars seem to get the best bonus. But I didn't see anything really out of whack (other than I think that weird science is overpowered to begin with unless the GM makes sure to steal and damage devices regularly... separate pools of power points get my goat).

Curious why such lengths are gone to just to ensure that The Combine's equipment can't be used. Feels like it is just there to keep players from picking off some of the best equipped folks around just for their stuff. Either that or their leader is super paranoid about someone playing with his toys (or both).
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Big Bad Jack
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shinryu wrote:
.

Curious why such lengths are gone to just to ensure that The Combine's equipment can't be used. Feels like it is just there to keep players from picking off some of the best equipped folks around just for their stuff. Either that or their leader is super paranoid about someone playing with his toys (or both).


Answered your own question there *chuckle*
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Clash957
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Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 231
Location: Tacoma, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

archus wrote:
Curious why such lengths are gone to just to ensure that The Combine's equipment can't be used. Feels like it is just there to keep players from picking off some of the best equipped folks around just for their stuff. Either that or their leader is super paranoid about someone playing with his toys (or both).


It wouldn't make scrounging (a staple in the Mad Max style Post Apocalypse) all that necessary. Plus it would make the Combine and Denver not nearly as scary Just fight some random encounters with the Combine, take the weapons you like, and sell the ones you don't to the Convoy. The posse would be rich in no time. Literally the posse could just make another Combine sized army (or some other group like the Sky Pirates) if they could make use of their weapons.

Besides, this is far from the only game pulling these shenanigans. All the really cool gear used by the opponents in Warhammer is covered in Chaos sauce. Making it completely unusable for the players if it doesn't just dissolve into nothing. Same with D&D's Drow elves, exposes to sunlight the stuff is useless.
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shinryu
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Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, looks like a lot of the stuff's been addressed in the new print, very nice. XM-21 firing standard rounds, T, AP upgrade on the NA commando, Templar powers, etc. Some of the damages are still off, but this may just be the official line on damage with those rounds and I'm just going to have to live with that.

Still some outstanding issues in the Gear table, however, that I'm pretty sure aren't intentional?:

1) The HI Damnation and HI Thunderer are statistically identical, despite one being an SMG and one being an assault rifle?

2) The grenade table gives one set of ranges for 20mm and 40mm grenade launchers; however, none of the launchers in the table actually use these ranges. So a bit confusing there.

3) The Ruger Thunderhawk is a .357 and it does 2d6+2, unlike literally every other .357 listed? I'm sorry, still looks like a typo. Also, pedantic statistical note: 2d6+2 is superior to 2d8 in terms of damage (same rough average, better ace chance), so it's a little odd that some weapons do 2d6+2 rather than stepping up to 2d8 for consistency.

It sounds like from the other thread this version's going to the printers, so definitely better, but these still struck me as odd.
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shadd4d
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003
Posts: 3991
Location: Charlottesville, VA...I miss Deutschland and Chicago.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
Demonicuss Krinn wrote:
Re: Witches - yeah, kinda sad to see 'em not mentioned. Also not mentioned, Cyborgs. Which is kinda odd, as you'd think they'd be in there -(SPOILER) not to mention a certain NPC statted out has the fluff and crunch of cyborgs mentioned - it talked about Rules of Engagement and Cyborg Chassies. Maybe they dropped due to time or booksize or soemthing. Hopefully they'll be introduced later on.


Already in the works. HOE Reloaded is the core book for the setting, but a Companion is already planned to have the Plot Point Campaign plus more info on characters like Witches and Cyborgs.

You heard it here first! Unless you heard it somewhere else before. Wink


Will it also include more regarding servitors? I think a canny reader unfamiliar with HoE might cobble some rules for their games, but I was mildly disappointed that HoE:R didn't have explicit comments on Servitors like DL:R did.

I liked it overall, although the dropping of the guts skill and change to fate chips is something I did not see coming. I like that the core HoE:R book included a lot more dealing with gear, scavenging and those elements.

Now I just need to find a gaming group willing to run with me on this one.
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"But there is a difference between fear and horror. An important difference.
Fear is when you worry about what might be.
Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01
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