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Count Zero
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: [Interface Zero] Hacking |
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A few questions came up during a game last night, so I'll send this out to the community - first, how does someone hack a TAP and what exactly can you do if you are successful? The concept seems very easy to abuse. Second, is there a difference hacking in The Deep versus hacking in the meat world with a hyperglove? If not, there seems to be no reason for a hacker character to ever be physically present.
I love running the game, but some of the concepts get a bit muddled during play. I feel like I'm tweaking how the world works every session. I'm sure the 2nd edition will clear it up, but we're playing now. 
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Wolfson
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Thurak will probably have a few things to say in regards to your questions, but I'll put in my two credits since I'm here...
[1] We wrote some rules for hacking a TAP (sometimes called 'Brain Hacking' although I prefer the term 'TAP Dancing'). Originally they were going to appear in the advanced version of the Hacking Rules, but I think they may be added to the original document since a lot of people seem to want to do this thing.
Because of that (and since I don't know if any changes have been made to the original document), I'm not going to post the entire thing here, but in short we handled it as an opposed Dramatic Task with a fair number of penalties (starting at a -3 if you're trying to hack a basic TAP). Once in - assuming you get in - you can either use the edit function on your Hyper Gloves to briefly access the target's memories, or enter into something of a 'Test of Wills' to take control of the target on a slightly more long term basis.
[2] You may have to clarify what you mean by hacking The Deep versus the meat world. My assumption is that you're asking if a hacker needs to be present to do something like hack a gun.
This is MY opinion, and doesn't necessarily reflect that of the publisher, but I'd say 'depends'. Technically, one is never really hacking 'meat'... one is always hacking something that exists in The Deep, even if it's only as a Hyper Tag. As a result, a hacker could theoretically sit in Chicago and hack a gun in Hong Kong - but I'd assign some seriously steep penalties to it. In practice, it's probably easier for a hacker to hit something like that 'on the fly' while physically there... at least with line of sight.
I don't know if any of that helps, but at least it should be a jumping off point. 
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: Re: [Interface Zero] Hacking |
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| Count Zero wrote: | A few questions came up during a game last night, so I'll send this out to the community - first, how does someone hack a TAP and what exactly can you do if you are successful? The concept seems very easy to abuse. Second, is there a difference hacking in The Deep versus hacking in the meat world with a hyperglove? If not, there seems to be no reason for a hacker character to ever be physically present.
I love running the game, but some of the concepts get a bit muddled during play. I feel like I'm tweaking how the world works every session. I'm sure the 2nd edition will clear it up, but we're playing now. |
Hiya Count Zero,
There are rules for Hacking the TAP, but I wanted to get them play tested before I release them [Nudges Wolfson] as an update to Hacking 2.0 ( and later on in the IZ 2.0 book).
Successfully Hacking someone's Brain ( Hacking the TAP) Can make them a minion that you control for a short period of time. While you might think this can be abused, remember this golden rule: What they can do to you, you can do to them.
Also, Keep in mind that characters and NPCs who have had their brains hacked get a spirit roll to break the connection if they are ever commanded to do somehting that they would otherwise never do ( commit suicide, shoot their friends, etc).
As for hacking in The Deep, I'm pretty sure I haven't uploaded any rules for hacking in Virtual reality yet. The hyper glove cannot be used to hack virtually. It's a tool for real-time hacking.
There will be some rules for Hacking in VR if the hacker doesn't want to be with the group, however.
You mention that you have to tweak how the world works every session. Can you elaborate on that? Is there something you're not understanding?
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfson wrote: |
This is MY opinion, and doesn't necessarily reflect that of the publisher, but I'd say 'depends'. Technically, one is never really hacking 'meat'... one is always hacking something that exists in The Deep, even if it's only as a Hyper Tag. As a result, a hacker could theoretically sit in Chicago and hack a gun in Hong Kong - but I'd assign some seriously steep penalties to it. In practice, it's probably easier for a hacker to hit something like that 'on the fly' while physically there... at least with line of sight.
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You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong.
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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I think the best analogy for hacking that I can come up with, without getting overly complex, is the movie Minority Report.
I don't know if you've seen it, but in the movie, people interact/interface with computers using gloves which allow them to "Physically" manipulate digital data, like pictures, windows, etc.
They do this by "grabbing" them and moving them around, collapsing them, enlarging them.
The same concepts apply to Hyper Reality in Interface Zero, but on a massive scale. nearly all types of objects have digital representations, which can be manipulated. You can "see" these digital representations if you have a TAP, and you can manipulate them for normal every day use ( touching a screen, typing in a pass code or an email, etc..) BUT if you have a hyper glove, you can access the underlying programming of these Hyper Objects and hack them to suit your needs.
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Wolfson
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | | You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong. |
Doh. I knew that. Really I did. 
And my bad on the playtest end - actually, Heidi wanted to do a brain hack last session and I'd forgotten to bring a copy of the rules with me. 
We'll do some tests over the next two days (promise), and I'll get back to you.
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TheLoremaster
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | | You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong. |
So a Hyper-Glove is less like a "deck" like we see in CP2020 or Neuromancer, and more like a sonic screwdriver?
Cool ...
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | | thurak wrote: | | You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong. |
So a Hyper-Glove is less like a "deck" like we see in CP2020 or Neuromancer, and more like a sonic screwdriver?
Cool ... |
Precisely
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Count Zero
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | | TheLoremaster wrote: | | thurak wrote: | | You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong. |
So a Hyper-Glove is less like a "deck" like we see in CP2020 or Neuromancer, and more like a sonic screwdriver?
Cool ... |
Precisely |
...which is pretty much how we are rolling with it. As for hacking in The Deep, I guess my biggest question is how fast and how far can a player go? If Spazz the Hacker is ghosting from his apartment in Boston, could he go to Hong Kong and hack into a vending machine? How long would it take him to get there and what could get in his way?
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TheLoremaster
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Count Zero wrote: | | As for hacking in The Deep, I guess my biggest question is how fast and how far can a player go? If Spazz the Hacker is ghosting from his apartment in Boston, could he go to Hong Kong and hack into a vending machine? How long would it take him to get there and what could get in his way? |
That's just it: he can't. He's got to see and be within Hyper-Glove range to hack an object. That's it.
The question is what to do to hack an item. The Hacking 2.0 rules are a little unclear. Example: hacker sees a passing remote drone and wants to control it. Is it a straight Hacking roll, an Extended Check, does he have to beat it in combat, or simply defeat its own firewall? It's just a bit unclear.
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Count Zero
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | | Count Zero wrote: | | As for hacking in The Deep, I guess my biggest question is how fast and how far can a player go? If Spazz the Hacker is ghosting from his apartment in Boston, could he go to Hong Kong and hack into a vending machine? How long would it take him to get there and what could get in his way? |
That's just it: he can't. He's got to see and be within Hyper-Glove range to hack an object. That's it. . |
Well, there is a distinct difference between VR and HR. Since the Hacking 2.0 rules are still being fleshed out it is a huge grey area in regards to what you can and cannot do in VR. This hasn't really affected the game much, but I want to wrap my head around the concept a little better.
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| TheLoremaster wrote: | | Count Zero wrote: | | As for hacking in The Deep, I guess my biggest question is how fast and how far can a player go? If Spazz the Hacker is ghosting from his apartment in Boston, could he go to Hong Kong and hack into a vending machine? How long would it take him to get there and what could get in his way? |
That's just it: he can't. He's got to see and be within Hyper-Glove range to hack an object. That's it.
The question is what to do to hack an item. The Hacking 2.0 rules are a little unclear. Example: hacker sees a passing remote drone and wants to control it. Is it a straight Hacking roll, an Extended Check, does he have to beat it in combat, or simply defeat its own firewall? It's just a bit unclear. |
We haven't gotten into the rules in terms of hacking Drones or other vehicles, because, well, they're moving objects, and can quickly get out of range. that said, my thoughts on this right now are that if you can maintain range on a moving object, you can hack it, but if you ever fall out of range, you get logged out of the thing you are trying to hack.
There are no extended checks in the game for anything other than the brain and basic VR Hacking rules, which we haven't released yet.
If you want to hack something, just follow the rules on page 9 of Hacking 2.0
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Last edited by thurak on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thurak
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Count Zero wrote: | | thurak wrote: | | TheLoremaster wrote: | | thurak wrote: | | You have to be in range of the Hyper object if you want to hack it. AND you have to be able to see the object you wish to hack. Hyper Gloves have a range attached to them, so, no, you can't hack a Hyper Tag from Hong Kong. |
So a Hyper-Glove is less like a "deck" like we see in CP2020 or Neuromancer, and more like a sonic screwdriver?
Cool ... |
Precisely |
...which is pretty much how we are rolling with it. As for hacking in The Deep, I guess my biggest question is how fast and how far can a player go? If Spazz the Hacker is ghosting from his apartment in Boston, could he go to Hong Kong and hack into a vending machine? How long would it take him to get there and what could get in his way? |
The way the basic Virtual hacking rules are written now, yes, he could, but they are REALLY stripped down rules:
Here are what we have so far:
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VIRTUAL HACKS
Up until now, we've discussed the process for hacking a computer network when your characters are physically at the thing they wish to hack. What follows are two quick methods for hacking via Virtual reality. The advanced rules at the end of the book will go into more detail, providing a solid framework for creating virtual characters so you can play entire games in virtual reality.
A PRE-HACK
A character may decide they wish to enter Virtual Reality and hack a system ahead of time before their team moves in. If this is the case, the hacker initiates a dramatic task against the Firewall rating of the system in question. Success allows the Hacker to effect a number of items within the system ahead of time equal to half their hacking Die type. Examples include turning off or changing cameras, changing database files, giving clearances at checkpoints ect.
Failure typically results in the Hacker taking progressive “Shock!” damage as described on the charts above, a number of times equal to the amount of success they fell short of. The System may also become alerted to the attempted hack and be on alert for the next 24 hours.
This type of hack must be done within 24 hours of the mission, otherwise the system will reboot and all of the hacker's work will be erased.
VR OVERWATCH HACKING
Overwatch Hacking is another tool in the Hacker’s arsenal. The hacker logs into the system and remains inside while their physical body remains elsewhere. The hacker typically remains in contact with their team through VR messaging, and hacks individual items as their team comes across them.
While more risky for the hacker in the sense of being detected, they end up physically safer by not having to enter the building in the first place.
Overwatch hacking is handled abstractly and is very similar to a Pre-Hack. The character begins by engaging in a Dramatic task with the system in question, following all of the rules of a Pre-hack, including the results if a character fails. Should the character succeed however, the results are different.
Rather than setting up a number of pre-conditioned item responses like a VR hack, the character has instead successfully infiltrated the system undetected. From here the character has access to every item controlled by the network’s server box. The character may make a hacking test against every item linked to the host network, whenever they wish, following all of the standard hacking rules, except physically the character is not present.
This allows the character to turn off Cameras as their team approaches them, access the elevators as their team approaches them, open locked doors, turn off the coffee machines, rewrite files, and do anything else needed all from the comfort of being safely elsewhere. Should the character ever fail in a Hack, they suffer the results from the Hacking tables just like they would normally, but with an added danger…Given the pure raw feed of running in VR, all “Shock!” damage effects gain an extra die.
GM’s and players alike should also keep in mind, not every System is Hackable from the outside, and many high end systems are closed networks, preventing anything but a physical penetration and physical hacking.
HACKER VS. HACKER COMBAT
Occasionally hackers may decide to engage in combat with one another in Virtual Reality, or the result from a hacking failure may cause a security hacker to engage in combat with a PC. If this happens, the Hackers roll opposed Hacking rolls against one another each round. The loser takes the winner’s Hyper glove damage rating. Damage can be Lethal if the user’s Hyper glove has the lethal mode mod attached.
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You'll notice don't mention time in terms of how long it takes. You are free to determine how long the dramatic task takes for a PRE-HACK, but I don't think I'd have it last more than a few minutes. With this method you can hack a Vending machine in Chicago From you doss in Hong Kong if you like.
Overwatch Hacking assumes the hacker is along for the ride(albiet remotely) and will take as long as it takes the team to do the job they need to do.
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Hellfire6A
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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When can we expect to see the new rules for hacking 2.0 and will they be done as a modification download to the present pdf?
Or will all of this be changed in IZ 2.0?
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thurak
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry that it's taken so long to get an update to the hackign 2.0 rules. I'm working on it as time permits, and once it's ready, it will be an update to the existing PDF.
The basic rules will be in IZ 2.0, but not the entire thing, as the advanced VR hacking rules are extensive.
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Doctor_Rob
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Sorry for the noob question re Hacking 2.0 (I'm new to SW and IZ)
In Hacking 2.0 basic rules, does a hyper glove have no firewall?
If there is no firewall, then I assume system or NPC hacker attacks on a PC hacker occur in virtual reality. Thus, the 'to hit' number will always be based on opposed Hacking skill rolls
Rob |
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thurak
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Doctor_Rob wrote: | Sorry for the noob question re Hacking 2.0 (I'm new to SW and IZ)
In Hacking 2.0 basic rules, does a hyper glove have no firewall?
If there is no firewall, then I assume system or NPC hacker attacks on a PC hacker occur in virtual reality. Thus, the 'to hit' number will always be based on opposed Hacking skill rolls
Rob |
That's exactly right. Hacker VS hacker combat in the basic rules is not like regular combat. It's opposed rolls, with the loser taking the damage from the hyper glove.
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David Jarvis
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Doctor_Rob
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| thurak wrote: | | Doctor_Rob wrote: | Sorry for the noob question re Hacking 2.0 (I'm new to SW and IZ)
In Hacking 2.0 basic rules, does a hyper glove have no firewall?
If there is no firewall, then I assume system or NPC hacker attacks on a PC hacker occur in virtual reality. Thus, the 'to hit' number will always be based on opposed Hacking skill rolls
Rob |
That's exactly right. Hacker VS hacker combat in the basic rules is not like regular combat. It's opposed rolls, with the loser taking the damage from the hyper glove. |
Ok - thanks! |
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thurak
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Doctor_Rob wrote: | | thurak wrote: | | Doctor_Rob wrote: | Sorry for the noob question re Hacking 2.0 (I'm new to SW and IZ)
In Hacking 2.0 basic rules, does a hyper glove have no firewall?
If there is no firewall, then I assume system or NPC hacker attacks on a PC hacker occur in virtual reality. Thus, the 'to hit' number will always be based on opposed Hacking skill rolls
Rob |
That's exactly right. Hacker VS hacker combat in the basic rules is not like regular combat. It's opposed rolls, with the loser taking the damage from the hyper glove. |
Ok - thanks! |
NP. We feel it goes much faster this way. Having to hack a firewall to get into VR combat is adding more steps than necessary. Even adding a firewall modifier to the opposed roll makes things more complicated than they need to be.
The rationale, however, was that since the hacker is already "connected" to the hyper object, he would have had to bypass/shutdown his own firewall to allow for the connection to take place, so it's easier to just make it a non-issue.
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Doctor_Rob
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks David, I really appreciate you getting back to me on this issue.
(I tried a quick run using the new rules and they are nice and parsimoneous. Very streight forwards).
Rob |
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