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Foolish Frost
Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: Savage Worlds rules for Mechwarrior/battletech |
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I've been looking over "A time of War", and decided while I like the setting and much of the overall feel of mechwarrior, that I didn't like the game mechanics. Especially ones knocking people out every time they get a splinter or bump their big toe. Or that makes me modify damage levels by a percentage.
So I rebuilt Savage Worlds skills and traits to allow it to act as the rpg side of the game, while keeping most of battletech as it is.
Benefits to this system include a very simple and fast rpg, but allowing the players all the options of the full battletech system for vehicle combat.
You will need both the book "A Time of War" and the rules for "Savage Worlds Revised".
Rules follow:
Skills:
Removed or changed in Savage Worlds (Revised):
- Boating -> Piloting (Water) Specialty
- Climbing -> Athletics (Climbing) Specialty
- Driving -> Piloting (Ground) Specialty
- Gambling -> Profession (Gambler) Skill
- Healing -> Medicine Skill
- Intimidation -> Manipulation (Intimidation) Specialty
- Riding -> Animal Handling (Riding) Specialty
- Swimming -> Athletics (Swimming) Specialty
- Taunt -> Manipulation Specialty
- Persuasion -> Manipulation Specialty
- Intimidation -> Manipulation Specialty
Current:
Animal Handling [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Riding, Train, Herding, Husbandry)
Artillery [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Direct fire, Indirect Fire)
Athletics [Strength] (Choose specialty from: Climbing, Swimming, Running)
Command [Spirit] (Choose specialty from: Leadership, Tactics, Strategy)
Computers [Smarts]
Fighting [Agility] (Choose specialty from: Edged, Blunt, Martial Arts)
Gunnery [Agility] (Choose specialty from: Aerospace, Air, BattleSuit, Ground, Mech, ProtoMech, Water, Spacecraft, Turret)
Investigation [Smarts]
Knowledge [Smarts] (Each subject is a single Subskill.)
Lockpicking [Agility]
Manipulation [Spirit] (Choose specialty from: Seduction, Intimidation, Interrogation, Taunt, Persuasion, Negotiation)
Medicine [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: First Aid, Care, Surgery)
Notice [Smarts]
Piloting [Agility] (Choose a single Subskill from the following: Aerospace, Air, BattleSuit, Ground, Mech, ProtoMech, Water, Spacecraft, Jump Navigation)
Prestidigitation [Agility] (Choose specialty from: Pick pockets, Slight of hand, Escape artist)
Profession [Smarts] (Each profession is a single skill.)
Repair [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Aeronautics, Cybernetics, Electronics, Jets, Mechanical, Myomer, Nuclear, Weapons)
Shooting [Agility] (Choose specialty from: Bows, Crossbows, Pistols, Rifles, Heavy)
Stealth [Agility]
Streetwise [Smarts] (Each social group is a single Subskill.)
Survival [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Arctic, Desert, Forest, Ocean, Mountains, Jungle, etc...)
System Operation [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Sensors, Security, Communication, Damage Control, Engine Operation, etc...)
Throwing [Agility] (Choose specialty from: Blades, Blunt)
Tracking [Smarts] (Choose specialty from: Shadowing, Wilderness Tracking)
Skill rules:
* Skills with specialties must have one chosen by the player. All other uses of the skill other than the Specialization are used at a -2 penalty.
* Additional specialties can be purchased as raising a skill below its linked attribute.
* Skills with a single Subskill are each considered a single skill. And must be purchased as such.
BattleTech Conversions:
* Battletech conversion of the gunnery and pilot skills are 8 - 1/2 the skill die. (a skill die of d10 would become a BT skill of 3).
* If the character is NOT a wild card, add one additional point to the final battletech skill as a penalty. (A skill of d4 would be 8-2+1, or 7).
* Mechwarrior wounds are translated to Savage Worlds as wounds and fatigue. The first point of damage done to a pilot or mechwarrior wounds, while the next causes fatigue. Damage continues to alternate between wounds and fatigue until they accumulate a total of 3 wounds and 2 fatigue levels. The last hit Incapacitates the character. The pattern is always Wound/Fatigue/Wound/Fatigue/Wound/Incapped. Rolls to stay conscious are made as normal in battletech, but the target is equal to 6 minus half the character's Toughness or Spirit, whichever is higher. Increase this number by two for every wound and fatigue level they have suffered. This means a mechwarrior with 2 wounds and 1 fatigue level who has a Toughness of D8, would have to roll 6(base)-4(toughness)+6(wounds/fatigue) for a target of 8 or higher on 2d6.
* Generally, when a character is in a vehicle, use battletech rules. When outside, all fatigue and wound penalties apply as normal. The possibility of falling unconscious when wounded replaces such penalties when in the vehicle.
Hindrances:
- Poor Vehicle [Major]: Character only has access to a light mech or aerospace fighter. This may be due to money, rank, or a past failing, but the character is not allowed use of a heavier vehicle until this hindrance is paid off.
Edges:
- Zero G Operations: Negates all penalties for operating in a Zero G environments.
- Trainer: Teach others characters skills the character knows.
- Heavy Metal: Character is allowed to start with a heavy vehicle or mech. If his mech is destroyed, the character should be allowed to repair/replace his vehicle with another with reasonable in-game effort.
- Death Metal: [req Heavy Metal] Similar to the Edge "Heavy Metal", this edge allows the character an assault vehicle. |
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kronovan
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Before you put a lot of effort into you own conversion you should check out the existing one linked in the 2nd post of this thread
The conversion is named Savage Battletech and is in its 10th revision. |
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Foolish Frost
Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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I saw it. Fact is, I was not interested in changing battletech in any way. I just wanted an RPG engine linked to it that stopped asking me to figure damage percentages during a story.
"Uh, what's 68% of 11 points of damage? WAIT! I forgot to add my 17.6% bonus to hit!"
<frowns> When the RPG engine is more complex than the mech rules, you may have done it wrong.
This system keeps battletech almost EXACTLY as it is now. The idea is to translate the few bridges that cross over: Gunnery, Pilot, and damage.
I just reorganized the skills because I like this design better for battletech. I won't be adding much more than this. |
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kronovan
Veteran
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Foolish Frost wrote: | "Uh, what's 68% of 11 points of damage? WAIT! I forgot to add my 17.6% bonus to hit!"
<frowns> When the RPG engine is more complex than the mech rules, you may have done it wrong. |
Is that a criticism of A Time of War or Savage Battletech? If it's the latter, I really haven't got a clue what you're referring to.
For me, your conversion violates 3 cardinal rules for Savage World conversions that would prevent me from ever using it.
1. Adds or modifies more than 5 skills
2. Requires the purchase of another RPG system's core rule book.
3. Doesn't convert the flavor of the other setting, but instead adapts its play mechanics.
In fact in reference to the 3rd point, you conversion seems to be more along the lines of adapting some aspects of Savage World's play mechanics to the AToW/BattleTech system. To each their own, but that's not an approach I'd ever undertake. |
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Foolish Frost
Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kronovan wrote: | | Is that a criticism of A Time of War or Savage Battletech? If it's the latter, I really haven't got a clue what you're referring to. |
A Time of War. Savage Battletech seems fine to me, just not what I'm looking for.
| kronovan wrote: | For me, your conversion violates 3 cardinal rules for Savage World conversions that would prevent me from ever using it.
1. Adds or modifies more than 5 skills
2. Requires the purchase of another RPG system's core rule book.
3. Doesn't convert the flavor of the other setting, but instead adapts its play mechanics. |
As a computer programmer and game designer, I hold nothing cardinal. Ever. I adapt anything and everything to what my players need to play the game they want.
As to #2: It's a conversion from aToW. Of course you should buy their book.
#3: I I converted skills and added a few hindrances and perks. Overall gameplay has NOT been changed. The dice work the same. Overall skill number has not changed much, either. Just how they're organized for my campaign.
| kronovan wrote: | | In fact in reference to the 3rd point, you conversion seems to be more along the lines of adapting some aspects of Savage World's play mechanics to the AToW/BattleTech system. To each their own, but that's not an approach I'd ever undertake. |
Nope. See above. You generally play SW until you get into a mech or other vehicle, and then use BT rules.
Anyway, take it, leave it, hack parts out of it. It's an option for people who want a quick rpg connection to the BattleTech tabletop warfare rules. |
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UndeadParrot
Novice
Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Hi Frost,
I'm a long time BT player, too. I also think that keeping the BT rules for 'Mech and vehicle combat makes a lot of sense.
Nevertheless, do you intend to create characters by Savage Worlds rules and then close the bridges? If this is the case then kronovan is right about adding too many skills: it will have a serious impact on the competence of the PCs.
Question on conversion: If I have d12 gunnery and piloting, how do I reach better BT skills than 2? Even if I take Professional and Expert, a BT skill of 1 is the limit. Or will you add another (legendary) edge to make that last step to 0/0 skills?
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No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage! |
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Foolish Frost
Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| UndeadParrot wrote: | Hi Frost,
I'm a long time BT player, too. I also think that keeping the BT rules for 'Mech and vehicle combat makes a lot of sense.
Nevertheless, do you intend to create characters by Savage Worlds rules and then close the bridges? If this is the case then kronovan is right about adding too many skills: it will have a serious impact on the competence of the PCs.
Question on conversion: If I have d12 gunnery and piloting, how do I reach better BT skills than 2? Even if I take Professional and Expert, a BT skill of 1 is the limit. Or will you add another (legendary) edge to make that last step to 0/0 skills? |
Savage worlds character creation. And I moved the skills around, but it only has one extra skill from before. Nearly the same effective number. We'll see how it works out in practice. One thing to remember is a lot of the skills in Battletech arn't really worth much as skills. "Art" does not effect game mechanics much. It's more of a role play item, and useful in maybe one in a hundred games unless you push it.
As to the skills levels: Just translate Master into adding an additional +1 to BT skills. That would get you your skill of zero, and since BT does not allow lower skills than zero, we're done.
I do feel that professional should be a veteran edge, and that expert should be heroic. It just doesn't seem to flow well otherwise. Mind you, that might allow some abuse...
Also, I'll need to figure out some vehicle based edges. Ones that give mods to certain rolls:
"Longshot Pilot" might be one that reduces long range to medium range.
"SpeedDemon Pilot" could allow the pilot a +1 on all piloting skill rolls while at running speed.
As to matching perfectly with aToW: Not really an issue. Most NPCs I just slap on the proper primary skills by eyeballing and keep it flowing. Nobody wants to try and translate character perfectly, just see if they have a good pistol and diplomacy skills and run with it.
I should also mention I am going to allow players to use their bennies in battletech:
- Reroll an attack or piloting roll.
- Negate a single critical hit. (yes, they can wait to play it until they're told it's an ammo explosion for 120 points...)
- Prevent a single point of mechwarrior damage. (and avoid a KO roll)
- Eject on a headshot roll instead of dying. (I may make this a default. Not sure if i want to kill off player's characters with a single lucky hit or not...)
Game hasn't started yet, so we'll have to see how it runs. It may be overpowered, or not. I'll adjust in play. fact is, though: Battletech is a game of attrition, and these advantages might allow the players to actually fight in more than one battle before having to be laid up in a hospital or sidelined due to a wrecked vehicle. |
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kronovan
Veteran
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Foolish Frost wrote: | | And I moved the skills around, but it only has one extra skill from before. Nearly the same effective number. |
I'm sure you believe that, but what you're doing with your conversion is far from that simple. Artillery, Prestidigitation and System Operations are all new skills you've added. You're also made the previously separate ability of Running a skill by making it a specialization of Athletics. As well, along the way you've changed the linked attribute of Taunt from Smarts to Spirit and Swimmming from Agility to Strength. More importantly you've added a whole second tier of skill specializations (Why you believe that's a good idea truly escapes me) which amounts to the addition of a completely new play mechanic. As well, by introducing such a sub tier for skills, in a round about way you've effectively increased the number in the system from 23 to 74! And Prestidigitation as a skill name - seriously, you couldn't come up with a better term than that? 
| Foolish Frost wrote: | | As to #2: It's a conversion from aToW. Of course you should buy their book. |
Interesting then that you advertise it in your topic line as Savage World rules for MechWarrior/BattleTech and not a Savage Worlds conversion for BattleTech: A Time of War. If it was a true conversion adapting the flavor of the setting there'd be no need to buy the AToW book - a piss poor book at that I might add.
Just in case you missed this in your read of Savage Battletech - those rules maintain most of the BattleTech rules for what's termed 'Mech Scale combat. That's the combat that takes place when the PCs are piloting their 'Mechs. So the BattleTech crunch of determining hit location, critical confirmation, determining cluster hits and managing Heat are all maintained as per standard BattleTech tables and the roll of 2d6. When the PC's are out of their 'Mechs they're in Out of Cockpit scale and their actions are handled as per the the core Savage World rules. |
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peregry
Seasoned
Joined: 05 Jan 2012
Posts: 118
Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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To speak up on SBT as I'm the main face here for that ruleset.
We did do a few things to streamline Mech Scale combat, we removed face changing needing MP for instance to help speed up combat on Mech Scale as multiple rounds of closing in aren't fun (and it helps balance Light vs Heavies as it allows Lights to generate higher TNs, making them more viable for players). Not that it would be that hard to add those rules back in, as it's more of a personal preference thing.
| Quote: |
- Eject on a headshot roll instead of dying. (I may make this a default. Not sure if i want to kill off player's characters with a single lucky hit or not...) |
What we did in SBT is made it was wildcard pilots can never immediately die from direct Mech damage. A headshot, for instance, would result in the pilot making an Agility roll. On a success they eject and take no damage, on a failure they eject but have four wounds and are incapacitated as per SW. Obviously chips can be spent to reroll the Agility roll.
If you don't want to have any SW rolls while on Mech scale (which is what you seem to be trying for), I would make it so that pilots simply ejects, no bennie required, or perhaps requires a Piloting skill roll vs a base DC. Nothing sucks more than dying to random bad luck. :/
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- Peregry
It is always giant stompy robot time! |
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Foolish Frost
Novice
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| peregry wrote: | | Nothing sucks more than dying to random bad luck. :/ |
Agreed!
kronovan, is obvious you don't like the way I'm doing things. That's cool, but I chose it this way as a medium between SW and aToW. I may make adjustments down the road, or even redo the skills if it becomes a problem.
I would point out that only piloting has distinct subskills. Just like boating, driving, and piloting were before.
The rest use the rules for subskills that already existed as an option in SW. They allow use of all the others at a -2 penalty, and can be bought up for half an upgrade.
<volleys the ball back> "Your serve!"
And I LIKE Prestidigitation! I feels "pulpy"! |
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