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warrenss2
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Melee in SBt is quite viable as written, though it has a heavier Edge requirement than ranged fighting. |
I think it should be this way. Most Mechwarriors do ranged attacks, with only a little punching/kicking & Death From Above. A trained melee specialist has to put extra effort into it.
I wonder if the melee specialist have a sigma attached to them like snipers do with regular military troops.
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peregry
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Among the Clans: yes. Melee is generally frowned upon as wasteful.
In the Inner Sphere, I don't know if there's a stigma attached to it, but it's a much more showy and in general less effective than shooting the bastards. It is, however, something that is generally encouraged in Mech gladiator fights as it makes for a good show. There is a difference between military and gladiator MechWarriors in the setting, with both of them looking at each other as more inferior in their own setting. In other words, military MechWarriors believe that the damn gladiators wouldn't last a minute in REAL Mech combat, and those arena fights would be easy to handle, while the gladiator MechWarriors believe the military guys would never last a minute in arena combat, and think that field combat looks easy compared to it.
Canon wise, the military MechWarriors are closer to right, but not entirely. Military MechWarriors in arenas are very effective, but they don't make for good shows. Those that learn showmanship become major players in the arenas, those that don't do well for a while, but then burn out and are not popular with the fans.
Hmm... now I want to play/run a SBt game based on Solaris 7, the arena world of BattleTech.
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warrenss2
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | t was terrifying, especially once he got TSM |
TSM?
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peregry
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Triple Strength Myomer.
For the less Battletech savy, Myomer is the muscle that moves a Mech. It works much like regular muscle in the human body, and contracts when an electrical current runs through it.
Triple Strength Myomer, when exposed to certain levels of heat, increase the strength of muscles. This translates to a boost in the Mech's speed, but more importantly for melee mechs it doubles, yes doubles, damage from physical attacks.
So your Hatchetman which normally deals 9 damage with it's Hatchet, is now dealing 18 (more damage to one locations other than the AC/20s). A 100 ton mech that normally deals 20 damage with a hatchet... now deals 40 (which is pretty close to instant destruction on many mechs).
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- Peregry
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peregry
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:44 am Post subject: Rules Revision 10 |
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Savage BattleTech Rules - Revision 10
Updates
Core Concepts
Turn Order Section Added - Pg 4 - Due to Questions asked, this section was added to clarify some system mechanics
Piloting Updated - Pg 4 - Section was heavily editted and expanded due to feedback.
Special Case Rules
Special Tactics and Maneuvers - Electronic Warfare - Pg 10 - The Electronic Warfare section has been signficantly reworked and expanded, now with a list of powers and working mechanics!
Mech Quirks - Pg 13 - Added minor rules for aquiring Mech Quirks.
Character Options
Flaws - Pg 17 - Added Freebirth and Legandary Defeat flaws as suggested by Ketjak.
Edges - Pg 18 - Mech Marksman (pg 21) reworked to now function with a load of New Edges added that support specific types of Mech combat styles. These are Arc Master (pg 18), Deadeye (pg 18), Improved Deadeye (pg 18), Focused Fire (pg 19), Knife Fighter's Edge (pg 20), Improved Knife Fighter's Edge (pg 20), and Improved Mech Marksman (pg 21)!
Equipment
Introduction - pg 24 - Added a section explaining why none of the gear has a cost, with some notes for GMs to help understand the reasoning.
Optional and Experimental Rules - pg 35 - New section added to contain any and all well written optional rules suggested by our group or anyone else, as well as containing possible future rules to playtest and develop.
Optional Rules - pg 35 - The optional rules Extra Soft and Start Vehicle added. Extra Soft is designed to make Extras die a little easier on Mech Scale combat, while Start Vehicle was created as a result of popular demand for rules to help select starting vehicles!
Experimental Rules - pg 36 - A future defense rework is outlined here. Please read, playtest and review if you get the chance.
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warrenss2
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Location: Augusta, GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| peregry wrote: |
If you look at the Mech rules for SBt, combat has been sped up greatly. This accomplished by adopting hit with raise from Savage Worlds. On a Mech, a hit with a raise results in a Battletech critical threat on that location. Further raises add +1 on the confirmation roll. Additionally, more weapons tend to hit due to weapon grouping rules. All this results in combat being much faster and armor no longer stopping hits until depleted. |
--- Speeds it up a good bit.
I think I have a grasp on the Ranged Defense Stat now. I was bellyaching because it wasn't purist Savage Worlds. But now I'm thinking the BETTER the targeted pilot is... the harder they are to hit. Kinda like "The Force is strong it this one" 
We found it difficult to remember what was added to the target's Ranged Defense Stat and what to subtract off the firer's Gunnery Skill dice roll. Is there any way you can make it all be modifiers to the shooter's skill roll? We are more accustom to that being done in both SW and BT.
Running and Flank Speed only gets a -1??? How about a -2 as it is in both SW & BT? It's a multi-action penalty in SW.
Stationary 0
Walking -1
Running -2
Jumping -3
We questioned some of the "whys" on the Target Movement Modifiers. Once again why not keep it as in BT?
(Translated to apply against the shooter's Gunnery Skill <see above>)
Movement
Moved 0–2 hexes 0
Moved 3–4 hexes -1
Moved 5–6 hexes -2
Moved 7–9 hexes -3
Moved 10–17 hexes -4
Moved 18–24 hexes -5
Moved 25+ hexes -6
We understand that you want to encourage folks to purchase both games, but making a set of necessary SBt gaming tables would speed up play more. Plus Catalyst Labs is offering the tables for free... I doubt they would mind you modifying them, for non-profit reasons, for SBt. Also, your stuff is a lot more printer friendly than their's!
Although you have done an EXCELLENT job at converting MechWarrior weapons over to SW we have found ourselves wondering what would happen if the MECH weapons were converted from their "fixed damage" to where you roll the amount of damage... ACES anyone? 
We had two Lances going at it. The Hatchetman TOTALLY wiped out a single Mech and was working on the second when the horrified enemy Lance player combined the remaining Lance's firepower on him to remove it's threat. Woe unto thee for ignoring the Mech Melee Skill!!!!!
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peregry
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Joined: 05 Jan 2012
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| warrenss2 wrote: | | We found it difficult to remember what was added to the target's Ranged Defense Stat and what to subtract off the firer's Gunnery Skill dice roll. Is there any way you can make it all be modifiers to the shooter's skill roll? We are more accustom to that being done in both SW and BT. |
We actually never considered it. The way they are split makes sense to me, personally. Things that universally apply to defenses are treated as bonuses to a unit's defense while things that only matter for that shot are treated as penalties to the attacker. I do not think we'll be changing the core rules; however, with the new Optional Rules section, I may just add in an "alternative modifiers" section if folks here feel it would greatly help them.
| Quote: | Running and Flank Speed only gets a -1??? How about a -2 as it is in both SW & BT? It's a multi-action penalty in SW.
Stationary 0
Walking -1
Running -2
Jumping -3 |
Originally, Running did generate a MAP, what we determined is that this made Run and Gun to important of an Edge, so we decided to reduce the penalty it applied to allow folks to get by without Run and Gun.
As to why not to use the BattleTech values, this goes back to having to reduce some of the modifiers from BattleTech to help account for the smaller die sizes. In other words, for the same reason Pulse Lasers only give a +1 on Gunnery rather than the BattleTech standard of +2, it helps gamebalance. Further, it may not seem like much, but the lower penalties also help speed up gameplay by allowing more shots to hit.
| Quote: | We questioned some of the "whys" on the Target Movement Modifiers. Once again why not keep it as in BT?
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We originally did away with movement modifier entirely when creating the system, instead giving bonuses to defense based on weight category. This was deemed to awkward and imbalanced, so we moved back to movement bonuses. We wanted folks to be able to quickly calculate their bonus, and the BattleTech table is non-intuitive (the brackets for getting bonuses are not regular), whereas our current table is, all you have to remember is +1 at six with an additional +1 every two thereafter. It's easier to remember a formula than a table, after all.
I do not think it would create much harm to use the standard BattleTech table, though it certainly weakens Light and Medium Mechs by lowering their defenses.
| Quote: | | We understand that you want to encourage folks to purchase both games, but making a set of necessary SBt gaming tables would speed up play more. Plus Catalyst Labs is offering the tables for free... I doubt they would mind you modifying them, for non-profit reasons, for SBt. Also, your stuff is a lot more printer friendly than their's! |
We will consider it. I doubt we'll convert the Piloting Skill modifiers table as that one is just run through the General Conversion rules with no other modifications; however, we have changed enough modifiers concerning Gunnery that a single table may be useful.
| Quote: | | Although you have done an EXCELLENT job at converting MechWarrior weapons over to SW we have found ourselves wondering what would happen if the MECH weapons were converted from their "fixed damage" to where you roll the amount of damage... ACES anyone? |
We actually considered, albeit briefly, an alternative damage system entirely that depended on rolled die. The biggest problem with rolling damage is that it actually slows down gameplay, and while fun, is fun only for the person rolling the dice. The other complication is balancing all the different weapons against each other, dealing with special case weapon rules, cluster damage rules, etc. It is a lot of work for, sadly, very little gain in gameplay. The alternative damage rules that use rolled dice exist, though, but have never been playtested and are incomplete. Perhaps one day they will get fleshed out enough to include in the new Optional Rules section, but not just yet.
| Quote: | | We had two Lances going at it. The Hatchetman TOTALLY wiped out a single Mech and was working on the second when the horrified enemy Lance player combined the remaining Lance's firepower on him to remove it's threat. Woe unto thee for ignoring the Mech Melee Skill!!!!! |
Heh, sounds like a fun game. We should go create a thread over in the General Chat and Game Stories section to hear the whole thing.
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- Peregry
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kronovan
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Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| peregry wrote: | | warrenss2 wrote: | | We found it difficult to remember what was added to the target's Ranged Defense Stat and what to subtract off the firer's Gunnery Skill dice roll. Is there any way you can make it all be modifiers to the shooter's skill roll? We are more accustom to that being done in both SW and BT. |
We actually never considered it. The way they are split makes sense to me, personally. Things that universally apply to defenses are treated as bonuses to a unit's defense while things that only matter for that shot are treated as penalties to the attacker. I do not think we'll be changing the core rules; however, with the new Optional Rules section, I may just add in an "alternative modifiers" section if folks here feel it would greatly help them. |
I've only had a chance to play one SBt game, as my group wanted to 1st learn the classic BT rules. This is what immediately came up with our play session too, and I'd say most of my players would support the idea of it just being penalties to the gunnery skill roll. As well, man would I love it if the BT tables were converted into a SBt table printout. If I wasn't up to my eyeballs with other homebrews, I'd probably attempt something myself. I'd say overall my group found SBt to be more fun than the multi-phase turns and crunch of BT. |
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loconius
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Why can't I download the revised document? It keeps taking me to a site where they want my email address and info? Is that normal, is it trusted? |
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peregry
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Posts: 118
Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, seems 4Shared doesn't allow anonymous downloads anymore. The site is legit, I've been using it to host these files for a while now with no complaints.
That said, I may try and find another site that allows for anonymous downloads as I do not want to force people to get an account to download the document.
If you do not trust the site, send me a PM with your email address and I will email you the document.
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- Peregry
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peregry
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Posts: 118
Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: |
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I have added an alternative download option for folks who don't want to get it from 4share. This is a Google Documents link, to download you will have to goto the File menu and select "Download" from the bottom.
Depending on folks opinion this may become the primary download point, but it's up to y'all.
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- Peregry
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loconius
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Cool thanks for the alternative, being unfamiliar with 4share I'm more comfortable getting it from google docs. Thanks, loving it so far, a fix for the mess of mechwarriior roleplaying is a nice one. And savage worlds all the more so! |
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kronovan
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Posts: 683
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm waking up this slumbering thread, because I'm playing regularly in a ongoing BattleTech tournament and I'm looking to intro the group to Savage Battletech on 1 of the game nignts. I'm wondering if there's any SBt more recent than release 10, of if there's 1 forthcoming in the near future? |
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VonDan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Is this ware i mention finding battletech first ed box set $1.99
Edited for those not familiar with the short form of my my Tropes
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peregry
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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We're am working on version 11, it features a major overhaul of defense, an expanded tables sections as requested. We're still finalizing the exact changes, but things will be working much smoother once we've finalized the changes.
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kronovan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| peregry wrote: | | We're am working on version 11, it features a major overhaul of defense, an expanded tables sections as requested. We're still finalizing the exact changes, but things will be working much smoother once we've finalized the changes. |
Wow, that sounds awesome peregry! 
BTW because of something that came up in a conversation, I browsed the A Time of War rulebook when I was at a LGS. Good Lord if ever there was a pure definition of incorrectly designed PnP RPG, that would be it! Made me that much more appreciative of Savage Battletech and the work you and your team have put into it.
Last edited by kronovan on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kronovan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| VonDan wrote: | | battletech first ed box set $1.99 |
I'm not following you VonDan; are you saying you have a BattleTech 1st Ed for sale for $1.99, or that you bought one for that? If its the former I call 1st dibbs!!!  |
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| kronovan wrote: | | VonDan wrote: | | battletech first ed box set $1.99 |
I'm not following you VonDan; are you saying you have a BattleTech 1st Ed for sale for $1.99, or that you bought one for that? If its the former I call 1st dibbs!!! |
He's probably bragging about buying one for such a ridiculously good deal. He has an habit of showing off his successful frugality.
I still can't decide if it's an annoying habit or a motivating one.
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VonDan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | kronovan wrote: | | VonDan wrote: | | battletech first ed box set $1.99 |
I'm not following you VonDan; are you saying you have a BattleTech 1st Ed for sale for $1.99, or that you bought one for that? If its the former I call 1st dibbs!!! |
He's probably bragging about buying one for such a ridiculously good deal. He has an habit of showing off his successful frugality.
I still can't decide if it's an annoying habit or a motivating one. |
Yes what he said. But really I'm more spreading the joy and recommending thrift stores unless you are in my town. And it is funny it seems I find something and the next day someone mentions it. It would totally off the wall and random if I had mentioned also getting D&D battle systems for $1.99
But then again I can only afford 1 or 2 new books a year that you kids always get
And what do i do with 3 battle tech box sets now
Von "Classic Box sets $3.98, taking the Princes Nerdia to the pizza hut next door $20" Dan
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peregry
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Location: Manassas, VA, USA, North America, Terra, Inner Sphere, Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Since you're postimg here, clearly the answer is to run a massive game of Savage BattleTech!
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