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tigerguy786
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Joined: 26 Nov 2011
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 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: Question about Rippers |
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I just picked up the Rippers pdf and I got to the equipment (ok...'possessions') section and the damage listing for the melee weapons struck me a really odd.
The damage for even the 'big' melee weapons is only in the Str+4 range. That's really not that much, are melee weapons really that nerfed in Rippers or is there something I'm missing?
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| Clint wrote: | | Common sense always trumps anything pretending to be an "overarching" rule. |
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RockabillyRebel
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Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Those are the damages listed under their old Savage Worlds rules. |
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RockabillyRebel
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Joined: 27 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Back, had to look up the conversion.
A Str+1 Weapon now does Str +d4
+2= +d6
+3= +d8
+4 =+d10
+5= +d12
anything above that is now a +d12+x, where x is whatever number above 5, so a +7 weapon is a +d12+2 |
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tigerguy786
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Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| RockabillyRebel wrote: | Back, had to look up the conversion.
A Str+1 Weapon now does Str +d4
+2= +d6
+3= +d8
+4 =+d10
+5= +d12
anything above that is now a +d12+x, where x is whatever number above 5, so a +7 weapon is a +d12+2 |
I thought that might be it. Wow, that seems so strange to me. I guess it worked, but that seems so bizarre to a new player like me.
EDIT: Is there a source out there for converting the weapons over to the most recent weapon rules? For sake of clarity and simplicity more than anything else.
Is it as simple as
Ripper claws
OLD: Str+3, min strength d6
New Str+d8, min strength d8
That doesn't work. Would it be Str+d6+1?
_________________
TIGER, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
| Clint wrote: | | Common sense always trumps anything pretending to be an "overarching" rule. |
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TheLoremaster
Heroic
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1915
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| tigerguy786 wrote: | | Is there a source out there for converting the weapons over to the most recent weapon rules? For sake of clarity and simplicity more than anything else. |
That damage change is really the only thing that was modified, otherwise just use the Rippers rules as written. Very likely Rippers will be getting the "Explorer's revision" treatment in the future, but who's to say when.
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RockabillyRebel
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Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| tigerguy786 wrote: | | RockabillyRebel wrote: | Back, had to look up the conversion.
A Str+1 Weapon now does Str +d4
+2= +d6
+3= +d8
+4 =+d10
+5= +d12
anything above that is now a +d12+x, where x is whatever number above 5, so a +7 weapon is a +d12+2 |
I thought that might be it. Wow, that seems so strange to me. I guess it worked, but that seems so bizarre to a new player like me.
EDIT: Is there a source out there for converting the weapons over to the most recent weapon rules? For sake of clarity and simplicity more than anything else.
Is it as simple as
Ripper claws
OLD: Str+3, min strength d6
New Str+d8, min strength d8
That doesn't work. Would it be Str+d6+1? |
It's a little funky, but the conversion rules were originally done in the first printing of Deadlands Reloaded. DLR was the first to use this kind of damage, and then, the rest of SW started using it when SWEX came out. |
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ValhallaGH
Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4475
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Question about Rippers |
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| tigerguy786 wrote: | | The damage for even the 'big' melee weapons is only in the Str+4 range. That's really not that much, are melee weapons really that nerfed in Rippers or is there something I'm missing? |
You're also missing that, when Rippers came out, melee damage was a Strength roll, with a bonus from your weapon. That means that Wild Cards got their Wild Die and could spend bennies.
As a static number, your minimum damage is 5. That means you always cause a normal (vigor d6, size 0) human to be Shaken and often cause a Wound.
Further, combined with Wild Attack, your absolute minimum damage is 7.
So that "nerfed" Str+4 weapon is doing (Strength or d6, with benny rerolls) +2 for wild attack = minimum damage 7 = Shaken for most foes. And that's a Critical Failure on your damage roll!
Average Wild Attack damage will be 10 to 13, depending upon the Strength die. That's huge.
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"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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tigerguy786
Seasoned
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: Question about Rippers |
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| ValhallaGH wrote: | | tigerguy786 wrote: | | The damage for even the 'big' melee weapons is only in the Str+4 range. That's really not that much, are melee weapons really that nerfed in Rippers or is there something I'm missing? |
You're also missing that, when Rippers came out, melee damage was a Strength roll, with a bonus from your weapon. That means that Wild Cards got their Wild Die and could spend bennies.
As a static number, your minimum damage is 5. That means you always cause a normal (vigor d6, size 0) human to be Shaken and often cause a Wound.
Further, combined with Wild Attack, your absolute minimum damage is 7.
So that "nerfed" Str+4 weapon is doing (Strength or d6, with benny rerolls) +2 for wild attack = minimum damage 7 = Shaken for most foes. And that's a Critical Failure on your damage roll!
Average Wild Attack damage will be 10 to 13, depending upon the Strength die. That's huge. |
So it is. Makes a lot more sense now.
_________________
TIGER, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
| Clint wrote: | | Common sense always trumps anything pretending to be an "overarching" rule. |
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chillburn
Seasoned
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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There's one more rule change that replaced Str minimums (for melee weapons):
A weapon's damage die is limited to the same die as the wielder's Str. So someone with d4 Str swinging a Greatsword would do d4+d4 damage, NOT d4+d12. To get the full damage out of a Greatsword would require at least a d12 Str (and for a Longsword it would require at least a d8 Str since the damage is Str+d8, etc.)
Also, if your strength is less than the weapon's damage die you gain none of the advantages that the weapon provides (like AP, or a Parry bonus) because you aren't strong enough to use the weapon to full effect.
Hope this helps. |
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ValhallaGH
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4475
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| chillburn wrote: | | Also, if your strength is less than the weapon's damage die you gain none of the advantages that the weapon provides (like AP, or a Parry bonus) because you aren't strong enough to use the weapon to full effect. |
But you do get the drawbacks. 
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"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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Clint
Site Admin
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 16174
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| tigerguy786 wrote: | Is it as simple as
Ripper claws
OLD: Str+3, min strength d6
New Str+d8, min strength d8
That doesn't work. Would it be Str+d6+1? |
Maybe, maybe not. There's no real absolutes when you get into weapons with higher damage than their old minimum Strength. New stats may even have completely different effects for certain weapons.
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Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
www.peginc.com |
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ValhallaGH
Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 4475
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Clint wrote: | | tigerguy786 wrote: | Is it as simple as
Ripper claws
OLD: Str+3, min strength d6
New Str+d8, min strength d8
That doesn't work. Would it be Str+d6+1? |
Maybe, maybe not. There's no real absolutes when you get into weapons with higher damage than their old minimum Strength. New stats may even have completely different effects for certain weapons. |
A great point. Just look at the laser sword. It went from Str+10, AP 4 to Str+d6+8, AP 12.
The conversion guidelines are just that, guidelines. They don't apply to every single case.
_________________
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." |
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